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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU asking for payment for a job?

54 replies

TFan · 14/09/2023 17:05

My youngest daughter (16) is a very talented artist. She recently posted some sketch pics to Facebook and my mum saw them and asked her to do a large picture for her. In the message to my daughter she did say she'd pay her for doing it. She wanted a large 24" x 24" picture doing of a specific superhero, this involved my daughter buying materials as she didn't have a big enough canvas or all the required colours of alcohol markers etc the initial outlay was £30
It took her 30 hours in total to complete in between finishing her exams, applying for jobs and socialising etc
We dropped the painting off last week and my mum and her partner were thrilled with it. It's framed in pride of place in the lounge. We stayed for an hour and no mention of paying for the picture came up.
We left and I told my daughter I'd mention it to my mum if she'd not paid over the next day or two. The next morning my mum posted a card with 30 quid in it so that just covered costs really.
Eventually I got the courage to mention to my mum that £30 only just covered costs and she messaged back saying "So you want me to give her more money or what?"
I've not replied yet. I know my daughter should have sorted rough pricing with her at the time but she's a kid and a bit anxious about things like that. And I know my mum didn't know how much the materials would cost (although I have mentioned it in passing to her while the picture was still being done) I feel terrible now that I've upset my mum and my daughter did 30+ hours of work for nothing.
Was I unreasonable to point out that £30 only just covered costs? But if someone does a commission piece for you, would you just presume how much you should pay for it or would you ask?

OP posts:
Whataretheodds · 14/09/2023 17:07

Did your daughter actually specify an amount? Or did her gran guess £30?

Whataretheodds · 14/09/2023 17:08

What makes you think you've upset your mum?
Your daughter's work wasn't for nothing- she's produced a beautiful thing for her grandmother.

Original poster
TFan · 14/09/2023 17:11

My daughter has never mentioned any price to her so I think my mum just gave her a random amount

OP posts:
namechangedtoday2023 · 14/09/2023 17:11

I would leave it. Your daughter got her money back and her gran recieved a beautiful painting. If you make any more of an issue; every time her gran sees it, it will remind her of the row over money. and not the feeling she gets from it now.

EvilElsa · 14/09/2023 17:12

Maybe Gran wasn't aware of how much supplies cost (my daughter is at art college so I am!). I would reply honestly and say yes, that it would be nice if DD could make a bit of money and obviously this would be a lot less than she would charge another customer as you are her gran.

Daffidale · 14/09/2023 17:13

I’d maybe chalk this one down to experience, unless your daughter is really upset about her gran not paying more.

She’s not actually out of pocket. Could she
treat the work involved as a gift to her gan?

I don’t think you Mum is unreasonable to maybe not know how much the materials cost or the time it takes, or how much it might be worth. Lots of people don’t know what art is worth.

But your daughter should decide what she wants to charge in future, and be up front about it. Maybe with one rate for close family or gifts, and another for friends

Original poster
TFan · 14/09/2023 17:15

The tone of her last message to me sounded a bit off. If I'd been told I'd underpaid for a job, I'd be really apologetic and ask how much I owed.
Don't get me wrong, my daughter loves doing pics for people and if it's A4 sized using materials she's already got then she doesn't expect anything for it, but this is 4 times A4 using top quality materials to very specific requests that my mum wanted

OP posts:
cariadlet · 14/09/2023 17:16

I think if your daughter wanted to be paid she should have agreed the cost in advance.

She needed to work out the cost of materials and decide on her hourly rate. Then either say she charged £x per hour or decide how many hours it was likely to take and give a total cost for Labour.

Your Mum could have decided in advance whether she was happy to pay this and go ahead with the commission.

Everyone would know where they stood and no-one would feel that they were being taken advantage of.

Mindymomo · 14/09/2023 17:17

DD thanks you for the £30 which covered materials, could you spare anything to pay for her time doing the painting. If you think it’s going to cause hassle, then DD should chalk this up as experience and agree price before doing any future paintings.

Original poster
TFan · 14/09/2023 17:20

That was my thought exactly and I told my daughter that she should have been upfront with pricing beforehand and at least she'd covered costs. She's not upset as such and I think she knows she should have sorted it beforehand, it was more that when she posted the sketches on Facebook initially she stated that she would do commissions over the summer to raise money for college supplies so my mum knew she wasn't doing quick pics for fun

OP posts:
Bruisername · 14/09/2023 17:26

I’d just tell your Mum - yes it would be great if you could send her over £X as she spent a lot of time on it and is trying to raise funds for college. Plus niceties

andrainwillmaketheflowersgrow · 14/09/2023 17:29

Just say to your mum that all the supplies cost £30 so it would be nice if she sent over some extra for her time.

Mrsttcno1 · 14/09/2023 17:44

I agree with other posters, let this be a lesson to your daughter to discuss prices beforehand. But even with that aside, surely she would have done it cheap for family anyway? I don’t know many artists/self employed people who don’t do cheaper rates for family and friends just to cover costs

JudgeRudy · 14/09/2023 17:52

If I'd been told I'd underpaid for a job I wouldn't be apologising. I'd be saying so how much were you expecting.
I'm also confused as to how/why you've involved yourself. At her age if your daughter's agreeing to produce stuff for people she really needs to agree a price before hand.
I get art/crafts take a lot of work and materials can be expensive but it's quite possible that although your mum liked the piece she wouldn't have normally paid more than £30 for it. My friend crochets blankets. They're quite nice. I wouldn't pay £80 for one though but that's what she needs to sell them for to make a living...probably more. I don't care how many hours she's put in, I'm comparing it to something else I could buy for same price.

twoshedsjackson · 14/09/2023 17:56

"Hi Mum, here's how the materials totalled up; the prices are shocking these days, aren't they?
DD used her time and talent to turn them into something beautiful for you.
Are you saying that her time, talent and trouble are worth less than nothing?"
It's a lesson your daughter will need to learn if she is going to make any use of her talents as a career.

Hopefully, she will learn from this experience, even if she lets this particular instance drop to keep the peace.

ZekeZeke · 14/09/2023 17:58

A fee should have been agreed up front, it wasn't.
Your mum probably has no idea what materials cost (like a lot of people) and possibly assumed £30 was generous.

Your mum is thrilled with the painting, don't tar that by causing an issue.

Lesson learnt for your DD.

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 14/09/2023 17:58

I don't think people should charge family for anything more than cost purely because they're family.

But, as a grandparent myself I would have been a bit generous and given my granddaughter money and probably some vouchers for art supplies.

Clymene · 14/09/2023 18:02

Your mum said she'd pay her for doing it. She hasn't.

When you say you pay someone - and they're friend or family - you ask them how much you owe. Don't put a random amount in a card.

Your mum is really tight. Well guess it's a good thing your daughter has found out now so she can tell her to piss off if she ever asks for her to do any other artwork.

Primproperpenny · 14/09/2023 18:04

How embarrassing on the part of your DM. She should have asked your DD for the cost of materials and then added some on top for her time automatically! At least £50 in total, I’d have thought, and even then that’s mates rates. I think your DM has been very stingy here!!!

Growlybear83 · 14/09/2023 18:06

I doubt that your Mum realises how much the materials cost, possibly that your daughter had even needed to buy more supplies to paint the picture. I know my mum would have been amazed at how much art supplies cost. If you don't want to make your mum feel awkward, could you not help your daughter out with the cost of the things she bought?

FluffyCloudsofShit · 14/09/2023 18:06

Lesson learn on all sides to agree on price before starting work.

xyzandabc · 14/09/2023 18:09

I bet your mum has no idea how much the supplies cost or how long it took to do.

In her head it's a piece of paper, a brush and some paint your dd would have had already.

She also probably thinks it took a couple of hours.

Unless you or dd tell her, she won't know.

Proudgypsy · 14/09/2023 18:13

I'd just reply something like-

Yes please, as you know she's doing the work on the side to raise money for college and she hasn't earned anything from it.

Clymene · 14/09/2023 18:23

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 14/09/2023 17:58

I don't think people should charge family for anything more than cost purely because they're family.

But, as a grandparent myself I would have been a bit generous and given my granddaughter money and probably some vouchers for art supplies.

Grandparents stiffing their grandchildren is particularly low

stagna · 14/09/2023 18:38

I am an artist who does it for fun and has many requests from family and friends. 30 hours is a lot - what style does your daughter use? I think you or your daughter weren't upfront about costs and time etc and that should have been agreed before hand. However, if your mother asked for a picture with specification such as this superhero in this pose with this background she should have been willing to part with more money.

When I was a teen, lots of people asked for paintings as a way to show their support to me, was your MIL doing this? Trying to support your daughter and showing interest and giving a token amount aswell? Or did your mother really want this piece of art?

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