How bothered are you about Small Boats?

[Spinet]

I think the idea that people think Small Boats with illegal immigrants on them is a really pressing issue is made up by politicians to have something to campaign on. Am I right? Is this a pressing issue as far as you're concerned?

I'm not really talking about immigration/ asylum seekers in general, just the small boats everyone keeps mentioning. If you're worried about people dying in the channel I get that, but do you think people finding their way here illegally is a major issue for our country at the moment?

I think it's clear I don't but I will accept I'm wrong about this being a made up issue if the majority disagree with me.

If you want to vote YABU= this is one of my top ten concerns. YANBU = I don't think it's a top ten issue for the country.

It’s not that simple. Do they need to retrain? Would you employ someone who doesn’t have correct immigration status?

I’m all for them working if they can though. So many Europeans have left UK post Brexit.

There is a new radio 4 podcast about the influence of the right wing media on whipping up all the issues that supposedly we the public care about, this is one of them. The issue is are we the public going to fall for this again and again like Brexit or think for themselves!

There are no legal routes to the UK for asylum seekers or refugees apart from a few very limited exceptions so they have to come here by any means possible in order to make an asylum claim.

Rather than spending money on boats to house them or giving money to Rwanda, we should spend all the money on hiring staff to process their claims with a target of 1 month turnaround for each claim.

This. And I absolutely understand the appeal of England. It’s much easier to work illegally here (there’s no effective enforcement) and if you come from an English-speaking or English as a second language country you are going to feel more confident in your ability to integrate here.

I’m happy to welcome as many people as needed into the country

This is a nice thought but when you envisage as many people as needed do you have a number in mind?

I fully support free movement.

I'm lucky to come from a powerhouse of the first world (so very lucky compared to those on the boats) and to not NEED to move. Yet I still feel irritated and stifled simply by the fact I can't just move where ever the hell I want too without refusal or red tape.

If I want to go live somewhere else for what ever reasons I deem beneficial enough to uproot my family for then why do pencil pushers get to say no. No one 'owns' the world. If others deem it beneficial to come live under our grey miserable sky's they must have good reason to choose that too. They aren't stealing our air by being here, its not them or us.

Like where your born is an accident of where your parents happened to be. It doesn't make anyone more deserving or entitled than others that they fell out in a good place rather than a war torn or 3rd world one etc...

Lots of asylum seekers or economic migrants don’t want to live in rural areas in England or Scotland and I can sort of agree with that. But they do prefer to live in the overcrowded SE and London areas.

There is a weird narrative from the left that concern about small boats and immigration is completely manufactured by the right wing media and the Tories. This is a dangerous school of thought because it ignores the reality that there are legitimate concerns amongst the general population and it isn't enough or realistic to just be #kind regarding this issue.

Uncontrolled migration is a real and growing problem for developed countries. As political and economic issues grow and environmental problems worsen then the number of people wanting to seek refuge in wealthy countries is going to be absolutely astronomical. The world is a terrible, frightening and downright dangerous place for so many and it is natural to want to help but we do also have to think about the standard of living of our own population too and how many people we can realistically help without endangering our own must vulnerable citizens.

Unfortunately no country has infinite resources and I think the UK has come to understand now more than ever that we are in a precarious position in terms of maintaing the living standards that British people have been used to. We need to think long and hard about our approach to asylum and how we can make sure that the most vulnerable and in need are prioritised. The mostly fit and healthy young men with the means to cross the channel in small boats are almost certainly not the people that would be first on the UK's list of people in most need of asylum so how is it right or fair to allow them refuge just because they were bold enough to attempt something dangerous and not even possible for most refugees?

Well said!

Ridiculous levels of cruelty towards detainees. Reading on the BBC website about a Brazilian man who took his own life whilst being detained he wanted to leave as was starting a course in Spain but they wouldn't let him. He had money for his own ticket. So horrible.

But the point is if you provided people with an easy safe route across the water the numbers of people coming would rise exponentially.

In many parts of the world the chance to live in a country such as the UK or US is akin to winning the lottery. That is sad for the people in poorer/less safe countries but even the most kind and generous British people must surely realise we can't house and integrate millions of people each year which is what free passage without restrictions would result in.

@EasternStandard not all are smuggled in by traffickers.

When you look at where asylum seekers go you will see that the U.K. is quite far down the bottom. Majority end up staying in countries like Turkey or Pakistan. Perhaps the U.K. could increase the overseas aid budget and pay these countries instead.

I'm a libertarian and the idea of the nation state puzzles me. I believe

1. people should be free to travel and settle anywhere in the world
2. they should receive no help or support from any government anywhere in any way. Where ever they travel, and where ever they settle, they should use their skills, knowledge, experience, wealth and the sweat of their brow to make a living and a life for themselves and their families.

People who aren't bothered tend to (not always) live in areas that aren't suffering the negative effects of mass illegal immigration.

Quite bothered. When you think if the draconian rules some countries have about who is allowed in and yet these boatloads of people arrive daily and expect no questions asked. Most of them arent asylum seekers.

I think it is a pressing issue that affects our country, in such that there are vital resources being spent on policing the channel and any rescues that are performed and the toll it takes on the communities trying to accommodate and care for those arriving in such a manner. I also think that we should have a way to properly document and screen those that are migrating here.

However I strongly believe there should be safer and faster avenues for those to arrive in rather than small boats. I don’t have any issue with people seeking asylum here, I have an issue with the fact that they cannot safely and quickly seek asylum and have to resort to life threatening measures in order to do so. I think in order to ease the burdens on the communities that are dealing with the influx there should also be a solid relocation plan (within the uk, not deporting them to Rwanda!)

I don't think concern about immigration is manufactured. and I know it is more complex than hashtag phrases which I won't repeat because they don't ultimately mean anything. But I also know that politicians and commentators are insisting that Small Boats as a subject is something at the forefront of voters minds, and I wondered if it really was. This unscientific survey of mumsnetters online at 12.30 on a Friday suggests it isn't at the forefront of theirs.

There were lots of Albanians in the boats at one time. What asylum claim could they have? People holiday in Albania FGS. Genuine asylum seekers are all ages, both sexes, fleeing war zones. The majority needing refuge are in countries near their own. Most of those crossing the channel in small boats are young men, whose backgrounds, unlike visa applicants, are unknown.

Indeed, but the those 500k people have been legally allowed in, and it's always telling that this figure never gets rolled out as to how much immigration we DO actually allow. The higher figure included Ukrainian and Hong Kong nationals, so an exceptional year.

Small boats are nearer 40-50k, so not insubstantial. Most of them have no asylum claim, but will eventually no doubt, be granted leave to stay, as there are too many in the system. Look at any tale from prospective migrants from Africa, most are economic.

The issue with the small boats is not the migrants themselves, but for me, more of the international crime syndicates that they support. For every one of them paying a few thousand for the crossing, and don't forget that can be by road, rail and sea, across several countries, this money is used to fund other crimes, drugs and trafficking in particular. Its not something we should accept.

@Spinet
I don't think concern about immigration is manufactured. and I know it is more complex than hashtag phrases which I won't repeat because they don't ultimately mean anything. But I also know that politicians and commentators are insisting that Small Boats as a subject is something at the forefront of voters minds, and I wondered if it really was. This unscientific survey of mumsnetters online at 12.30 on a Friday suggests it isn't at the forefront of theirs
39% of posters on a relatively left leaning forum disagree with you and think it is an important issue.... I'm not sure I agree with your analysis

I actually think it’s those who do. It humanises them. They are social workers or teachers for example, know them as people and know personal stories beyond media hype. They know them as neighbours.
I have worked with a number of families, and ï personally know people who have been here illegally. They aren’t the people the media present, some are now working professional jobs, some left when they could again and others were just pretty average.
People fear most what they don’t know. They panic about the unknown masses that may overrun them.

"It worries me that most of them seem to be young men in their twenties" Less than half of refugees arriving in the country fit that description (UK gov statistics). When I worked for the UN, it was explained why this is the case. In many war-torn countries, the men have died. This leaves the oldest male child as the "head" of the household. As traffickers demand a lot of cash, they can usually only afford to send one person abroad. So, they sell everything they own to send the one most able to go and to survive the harsh and dangerous trip. They have the hope that once they are able to claim asylum they may apply for their family to join them legally and safely. The other factor in this is that in invaded countries, the boys are often targeted for soldiers, so they are sent away for their own safety. 20% are under 18.
"from countries with a questionable view of women" many refugees are escaping because they don't agree with that regime and you do not have any idea what their views of women are just because they come from an Islamic country.
According to UNHCR statistics, as of November 2022 there were 231,597 refugees, 127,421 pending asylum cases and 5,483 stateless persons in the UK including recent Ukrainians refugees. That’s only half a per cent (0.54%) of the UK’s total population.

I don't think Mumsnet is left leaning any more and I'm not sure how you'd measure that anyway. I did also say unscientific! I'm not claiming it has any value but I am glad to see I'm not the only one who feels as I do.

I am concerned as it is really unsafe and these people need protection. I can’t imagine how bad your situation must be to risk your life (and sometimes your family’s lives).

Though to be fair I have no real solution to offer for that.

"Left leaning'? Mumsnet is certainly not that anymore which is a real shame!

I think we need to put in place correct procedures to take our fair share of people seeking asylum. We make max use of the fact we are an island.
I think the tory attitude to this is disgraceful. Mind you I live on the South Coast where people have entrenched views on this stuff

Yes. I'm worried about the small boats. There are legal ways of getting here - that's why we have accepted so many legal immigrants each year. I know many people from Hong Kong, Ukraine, Nigeria etc. They have all come legally as students, workers or genuine refugees. Every country should be able to choose who settles in their country - otherwise, why have any borders at all? Should we just build a bridge and let in everyone who wants to come? I look at the gang warfare in Swedish cities. Gun crime which wasn't a problem before large numbers of immigrants were allowed in. Of course, most immigrants are not criminals, but we have no way of checking that unless people arrive legally. So, yes. Im very concerned about the boat people. And will vote for any party determined to stop them.