Surgery cancelled again. WIBU to turn up to the hospital regardless?

[Wndof]

I've been waiting over a year for life saving surgery. I was finally given a date for 31st August then they changed the date twice, switching my appointment with somebody else and then telling me they'd made a mistake with dates. Finally, 14th September (so tomorrow) was confirmed and I've undergone all of the pre operative tests and assessments, made arrangements for the children, XP secured the time off work.. only for them to text me just now and say the surgery has been cancelled due to a bed issue.

I called the admissions coordinator who has been absolutely terrible throughout and told him that I plan on turning up tomorrow morning and won't be leaving.

I read on here thats what somebody's father did in the same situation and he got his operation.

WIBU to give it a go?

Sorry if I seem dramatic, I just cannot endure this utter shit any longer 😭

Well when I've looked after you, please feel free to comment.

Well when I've looked after you, please feel free to comment.

Yes we get it, you're amazing, you've posted several times to that effect on a thread about someone else's very distressing and frightening situation.

We would never transport post op as that's the highest risk time hence go to icu in the first place so you don't want to be in an ambulance with limited resources

If you're going elsewhere it will be preop and as you are

You can't go to any icu that's half the issue. Neuro icu is niche and needs specific Dr and nursing training to work there. Me googling says 25 in the whole of the UK and I only know of 4 in the South east

Nhs doesn't have time to make private enquires for you. If u want to do your own.research into private just ask your gp for a referral letter to wherever you choose

Your bring the drs in from elsewhere doesn't really work u fortunately as noone wants to be drs in the UK anymore. The money we get for the grief we put up with just isn't working and my colleagues are leaving in droves to the better quality of life in oz and nz so it's only gonna get worse and worse

It gets filled as fit depending on patients waiting, condition needing treating, which surgeon is available that day with which specialism, which patient needs icu or not, which emergency case is time critical

I have no words to express my heartfelt sympathy for OP; I have no idea how I would conduct myself in her position but I wouldn't be half as dignified, calm, and measured as she, of that I'm certain. Nor can I articulate my utter contempt for any poster who has treated her with anything other than kindness, compassion and attempts to understand. As for those of you who have been unkind, despite working in the, "caring" professions, find another job. I pray I never have to encounter any of you!

Well good for those on their death bed in oz and nz then, and god help those of us over here.

As has been repeatedly said to me but will serve you well to remember, the blame for the state the NHS is in lies directly with the government. It certainly isn't the patients fault and certainly isn't mine.

Some of the attitude, snippiness and impatience displayed to me, an NHS patient with a life limiting diagnosis at a time of crisis, is absolutely vile.

If (yes, I know, grossly underpaid and overworked) NHS workers can't be arsed to hide their distain for vulnerable patients who do anything other than keep their months shut and fade into obscurity then I don't want people like that treating me anyway.

Thank you very much @Ifeelsuchafool

It's really quite astonishing isn't it?

There is no place for people like that in the NHS or any caring capacity anywhere else.

For the patients sake quit and find another vocation. Do no harm indeed.

It reminds me of the time I was laid in HDU bedbound being treat for sepsis and iGAS and the nurse could barely hide her annoyance that I needed a cup of fucking water.

IT IS NOT THE PATIENTS FAULT YOUR WORKING CONDITIONS ARE SHIT!

I'm going to come away from the thread for a while for my bps sake.

❤️ to those of you who have been kind to me x

I really really hope that you get your surgery soon. I'm absolutely appalled that the NHS is in such a bad state that something so life-threateningly serious isn't being treated as a matter of urgency.

I've been shocked at some of the responses also, the absolute lack of empathy. Treating you like you're being shockingly entitled for just wanting to live. Insisting you don't make a fuss because there are others "worse off" - as if they'd not make a fuss if it was them or one of their children in your position.

OP I am just back to say that I am also shocked by some of the responses here, and by what you are enduring. Very best wishes

At no point have I said I'm amazing.
You made a comment about my bedside manner, which I doubt you have ever seen or are likely to see.

Or maybe you want someone who'll advocate for you, stand up for you, push you through rehab, maintain your airway in an emergency, recognise deterioration, cannulate you, get your meds, clean your teeth, put cream on your bum, suction you, brush your hair, keep your infusions running
But hey ho.... you better hope you encounter us if you need us

I don't know anybody who would want to be looked after by some of the so called health professionals on this thread. People with cold hearts aren't very good at masking them. The patients are probably shit scared of you tbh.

I don’t think trying to help OP understand why it’s not simply bureaucracy, lack of urgency/care etc that is causing delay- it’s issues with staffing and bed availability impairing the ability to perform the procedure safely and ensure she has the required post-operative care she needs- is being callous. It’s not. I hope that if op understands why alternatives that, on the face of it, appear obvious and straightforward are not being considered it will reduce her upset a little. It’s a horrible position to be in, but i think it would be worse to feel that there was an easy solution which just wasn’t being considered than understanding why things are being done the way they are.

Turning up- which op didn’t do- would not have changed things and has the potential for issues all round. I have seen things escalate badly when a patient and/or family member is anxious, angry and upset and starts to demand things that simply can’t be done- even people who i think are normally sensible, polite and levelheaded- and this would be one of those times where the potential for problems is higher. Equally, calling every day isn’t going to make much odds in this situation- keeping in regular touch is fine- it takes up time and it will not be easy for the person on the other end who actually cannot solve the problem. Threats of going to the press are all very well, but can lead to pressure being put on us to do things that aren’t safe or unfairly re-prioritise. It’s fine to say no-one cares less about the bed manager or the pa or the clinical staff when op is in this situation, but these are the sort of pressures that add to burnout. Which, given the current staff shortages, we probably should care about.

Reading this thread makes you realise it's not all the government's fault the NHS is shit. The people who work there clearly contribute to the shitty state of it.

Yeah I've spent hours on this thread trying to explain the nuances of the critical care network and systems as to why what may seem blatantly obvious to someone in the 'outside world' just isn't an option within theatres and icu. We are such a niche group of specialities working differently which much be an absolute nightmare to navigate as an outsider. Hopefully it helps a little to understand at least.

Op hope you're sorted soon I feel really sorry for everyone waiting its so unfair. I've always said I'd never get private healthcare but I'm now strongly considering it as the nhs is no longer fit for purpose

Not aimed at the OP of this thread, but those who have had surgeries cancelled at the last minute.

I work in a large trauma centre hospital, we are the trauma centre for a massive area, we are also the neurosurgery dept for a massive area, and stroke team for a massive area, and cardiac cath lap for a massive area, and other specialities - mostly due to closures of hospitals and departments across the entire county and neighbouring counties.

I work in A&E, if we get a call for a multi vehicle RTC for example, all electives get closed down, so thats surgeries, and scans, xrays etc. As not only may theatres be needed, we need anaesthetists to come to A&E for airway management and to anesthetise immediately, we need surgeons to come to A&E, we need immediate scans, we need radiographers to report on scans. Everything and everyone is needed. I have seen patients that required neuro teams, cardiac teams, general surgery teams, and ortho teams all simultaneously who are all bleeped to A&E resus immediately. When thats a multi vehicle RTC, 3 patients could all require that. And most specialities will only have 2 or 3 consultants, and they wont all be on shift together.

Electives have to be halted until we know what we ae dealing with. That cant be changed with money and more beds and government changes, its just how a hospital has to run. It has however been made worse by the closure of smaller hospitals who could deal with the lesser emergent and elective surgeries, and the closures of cottage style rehab and recovery hospitals where we could send medically fit patients waiting for social input freeing up beds for more minor elective surgeries that dont require high dependency beds after.

But there aren't different teams and different theatres and different scanners for emergency and elective. Its all one so they have to prioritise. Prior to my role now i worked on an emergency surgery ward where we would have patients admitted for emergency surgery waiting 4 or 5 days to have it done. Most of my days were spent reassuring patients that they would get their procedure, or scan they were waiting for, but that cancellations are unavoidable. I didnt quite understand how people needing an emergency appendectomy etc waited so long, and as staff in that area it was also incredibly frustrating trying to advocate for patients to get seen without understanding the whole system at play - until i worked in A&E.

I understand the frustrations, and wish i could say it will get better. But i dont think it will any time soon at least.

So … why does a RTA take priority over someone who could die imminently with an illness? I know if we’re in an accident we all want to be treated but why is that need greater than those waiting? Two systems are needed ?

This isn't meant to sound blunt.

If you're going to die imminently, then how will your survive surgery and recovery?
How do you propose we run two systems
We can barely run one

It doesnt necessarily.

Scans are shut down for an incoming stroke. The stroke team are called off the ward to come to the ED to assess them.

But A&E is in a constant state of triage, who can be stepped down from resus, who needs moving to resus, trauma call comes in we have 10-20 minutes to free up a resus bay and gather staff with minimal details, who needs the scan, who needs to be seen quicker, who can be transferred to to an assessment unit, or day case, or onsite GPs, who can be discharged with a follow up.

This isnt just A&E, this is the whole hospital, 5 patients awaiting appendectomies, who is at most risk of it perforating, who is stable on IV antibiotics, who has been waiting the longest, emergency perf comes in and they jump to the top of that list.

There isnt an infinite amount of beds, theatres, surgeons, anaesthetists, nursing staff etc. It has to work on a priority based system. If a major trauma comes in with catastrophic injuries, that need immediate attention, then they are the priority in that moment. Often it is a mad dash into resus and immediately stabilise enough to get to theatres, then back to the seriously ill patients.

It has to work that way. Decisions on who to prioritise have to be made and the medical staff are trained to do that.

Because we are pretty good at making people survive? If we give blood we support blood pressure with drugs, if we breathe for them while the surgeons fix their injuries then they survive...

Obviously those with unsurvivable injuries will get symptom control and palliative care, but those that we think have a chance we will do all that we can for?

If it was your mum/dad/brother/child you'd rather we just say "sorry love we aren't going to try, youve had your time" .... Wow I'm glad drs/nurses don't have the same mentality

@milafawny out of interest, how common would you say a large RTA is? I guess I'm wondering if somehow they stopped happening, whether that'd have a significant effect on the day-to-day running in hospitals?

Depends on the hospital. Mine covers the local area and all the surrounding counties. But we would probably, on average, only get few a month at most that are multi vehicle, they are not that common. However, its not just RTA's that would have that impact on the entire hospital, it was just an easy example to use

And just to add, these patients arent left completely unattended, there will be junior dr's and registrars that dont attend a major trauma to continue seeing patients with less urgent needs and nursing staff to care for them. But as far as surgery and scans etc go, yes they are often impacted by a major trauma coming in, or a patient with more immediate needs.

And i also understand how frustrating it is when it is you or your loved ones dealing with these cancellations and delays of much needed treatments, and the feelings that you dont matter or no one cares about your needs that are the priority to you at that time are valid ones. But all we can do as staff is apologise and reassure, but i can recognise how that isnt enough at times.

A few a month is still pretty bad! I get you're just using one example but presumably it's one that affects many people over the same time.