To think that everyone WFH thinks they are more productive but this view isn’t necessarily shared

[Cucumbertomatoes]

On here, everyone who WFH insists they are much more productive than in the office. However, I’ve noticed this view is rarely shared by others, hence companies wanting workers back. It’s an interesting one as clearly perceptions vary. AIBU to think that while you might think you’re more productive you may not be?

I dunno, aside from the fact that it would've been phone meetings not Teams, that sounds like a pretty similar setup to my first graduate job, and there'd have been as much chance of people working from the moon as home there. People were always in different offices, in and out for meetings, there was no continuity. Having to badger already overloaded senior staff for help when they clearly didn't want to take on any responsibility for training (they were overloaded tbf) and that was if there was any help at all.

I really sympathise though, it's awful when you're not getting the training you need.

This ⬆️

@kitsuneghost indeed and it is part of a more senior persons job to give advice, guidance and support people.

We have got our new grads in the offce this week - a lot my day today has been "chit chat" getting them settled in. That is not pointless work at all. it means the two new members of my project team feel valued and welcomed and will hopefully have a happy start to their next six months with us.

I learnt enormous amounts in my first jobs not from formal training but just by watching and listening to more experienced colleagues. You hear someone else dealing with a challenging phone call and think; 'I'll try that next time' or sometimes some one will suggest you sit in on a short notice meeting because its something new or exciting for you , or someone hears you doing something and points you in a different direction , or congratulates you on dealing well with something etc All those informal methods of learning just aren't happening.

Only last week I spoke to someone in their early career and looking to move who said that they just want to be in an office with people more senior to them and not just a load of other confused juniors who don't want to, or can't, sit at home in their shared house with no space. I would say 90% of the people I am seeing under 30 are looking for hybrid roles no one wants full time WFH, that doesn't mean that they don't want some flexibility.They want the training and the social side of work and also the networking opportunities, the chance to get noticed and meet new people and have new experiences. Time and again they say they have come and gone from organisations barely meeting anyone in person and feeling like they are just a name on a teams call.

I work form home , I love it , and can see many benefits but I am in my fifties , I work independently, and for myself but there has to be a middle way .

The issue is poor peopie management either way. It is detrimental to people who are foingvthe work efficiently to deadlines when they are interrupted by people chatting and pretending they are working, and then staying late so it looks like they are working harder than everyone else who went home at 5. If people are doing the work they should be doing, then their wellbeing is improved by wfh, they are saving time and money not commuting and can work flexibly what is the issue?
Otoh I agree that wfh may be detrimental to new staff, who will learn better from being around more experienced colleagues and may not have a proper workspace at home. But that can be solved by hybrid working, where everyone in the team has to he in a couple of set days a week. It doesn't have to be 100% home or 100% office. And I dont believe its detrimental to productivity.

My current and previous job have easily measured tasks for productivity and I am (and my colleagues are) more productive when working from home. The only people in either work place who seem to disagree are the ones who either take the mickey when working from home themselves, so think everyone does, or the people who are extroverts and want everyone in the office for the social aspect.

Can I ask how they measure productivity, I am really interested in how we define productivity especially as its something we keep being told as a society we are really bad at.

Productivity is measured by either profits, output or achievement of measureable targets. I don't know enough about it to articulate it properly but I feel this is an outdated concept. We can't keep measuring productivity by GDP because it is unsustainable to keep aiming for constant growth. We need to look at another model, Automation and AI will make some jobs obsolete, and will be far more 'productive' than humans.I read somewhere ( I think it must have been in one of the only economics lite books I've read- utopia for realists) that measuring GDP has only been done since the 50's and there are other ways to measure the wealth of a country that are far more effective, but we are wedded to GDP because the US calls all the shots, as the dollar is the International trading currency. As I said I don't know that much about it though and others will probably know more. I just have a gut feeling that it's not the only or best way.

That's nice and in the context of your role works for you and your team.

In mine it doesn't. I would have been in zoom calls all day in a quiet booth (cupboard) so wouldn't have been chit chatting to anyone in the office. I would have lost time because I had to go out to queue for lunch in the excuse for a cafe in our building. And I wouldn't be willing to join the zoom call I am due on with America in 5 mins (7:30pm) because I had to leave home at 6:30am/leave office at 4pm to commute outside peak hours, instead of just powering up the laptop in my slippers at 8am. We can make quick decisions and progress on the call tonight, instead of days of email ping pong and waiting until the next day for a reply.

Every role/person/team is individual and needs to be taken in context. Working in the office can be good, WFH can be good, hybrid can be good. It just needs to be properly assessed and managed by a half decent manager.

In my workplace, our performance gets measured in three ways: quality, productivity & utilization.

All three factors are higher at home than in the office. I do think however going into the office is important at least once a week though

I WFH and am definitely LESS productive! You end up faffing!

My job is a bit like this. Most of my tasks have to be completed, or at least started, the same day. Any slacking would be visible very quickly. Hybrid works well for us, 2 days per week in the office, most of us seem happy with the arrangements and I haven’t encountered any p*ss-taking.

I have dyslexia and dyspraxia and working in an open plan office guarantees a total write off of a day for me in terms of productivity. It even says on my psychologist report that my productivity will be massively impaired by working in an open plan office.

I am in a lovely, almost entirely WFH role now, and getting the best feedback of my career. However, there will always be ignorant people like the OP, who equate productivity with presenteism. Thankfully, I can choose not to work for them.

My role is like that but monthly. I deal a lot with others ( also wfh) where I woukd previously have had a lot of time travelling to workplaces I now eork on Teams. If I don't do my job then there's no one else to do it so I'd have to do it the next day ( even when I've booked holiday, I come back I still have the same volume of work to monthly so have to double the volume) I have also worked when otherwise I'd have been off sick.

I WFH either one or two days a week and I do think I am just as productive on those days. When I read about people only wanting to go into the office once a month (which I have not come across much in real life), I think the damage is more to training, informal learning, building working relationships, rather than short term productivity.

Absolutely agree!

I am very much in favour of hybrid working. I'd not want WFH every day as it would be lonely and it would be easy to get stuck in a silo and as an organisation we need more cross division elements, not less.

That said being in every day would limit the number of hours I can work because my commute is 40-45 minutes Vs 5 minutes to school for pick up (I'm part time). I go in 2 days out of the 4 I'm supposed to work, 1 is fixed, one is flexible, some weeks I might be in 3 days and other might be in just the fixed day... I also have the flexibility to add meetings on my non-working day and lose hours from a normal working day if it suits me. Adding a meeting on a Friday when I don't have better plans can mean I can fit in a run or a gym class while the kids are at school...

You missed the word ‘subset’ in your rant about someone’s lived experience.

For me, I time record (every bit of my day is recorded in 6 minute segments) and I have measurable outputs (my manager can see how many of X task I do each month). They can (and do) run the stats to see how much of my time is spent actively working, how long tasks take me (this goes to profitability of each case). There are outliers - complex matters that will always take longer, but taking those out, I get more outputs in less time when working from home and more of my day is spent working when I'm at home (and less being distracted by colleagues, chatting in the kitchen, attending in person meetings that should have been an email)

I know on MN people insist that they are more productive WFH, but I know quite a few people in real life who admit to taking the piss. They're resistant to going back to the office and have a million excuses at the ready, but the reality is they're spending their working days going to the gym, running errands, watching Netflix, pottering in the garden, looking after their kids during their working hours and know they can get away with it as long as they're "keeping an eye on emails".

My job requires me to liaise with several organisations whose staff used to be office based but now WFH since covid and the drop in responsiveness, efficiency and accountability from these organisations is significant.

You can put this down to poor management but the reality is that its got to be easier to skive when no one can see you doing it.

I work in an industry that is often mixed home and office and have for decades. I've always been more productive st home.

I have self discipline.

Unfortunately employers and employees without self discipline struggle to trust that those of us with it work harder at home.

It's a shane.

Good teams and bosses recognise we're all different with different strengths.

When people don't trust others to do something... it tells me how good (or not) those people are . They jutge others by their own poor standards

I work to the billable hours, I routinely get an hour or more billed from home. Many of us are the same and resent the push back to the office at all costs.

No objection to going for meetings or to train new staff but for day to day work let me save my commute and work undisturbed

Most industries are woefully short staffed now and sickness levels are high. This is more likely the reason.

I work in a billable hours profession. I know I learnt so much from overhearing conversations in the office and ad-hoc conversations.

I now lead a department and note that it is the juniors who are most keen to come back to the office. It's part of our job to support them and ensure we are visible for them. I get that they can message on teams or whatever for help but it isn't the same at all.

Balance is key, I am sure most places will settle for some hybrid pattern eventually.

I note in my organisation I am already hearing little snipes and jokes about the senior people who rarely show their face (I don't participate, but I have overheard them)

It's amazing how many people complaining about wfh completely fail to factor this in.