Meeting: 'Working from home' - your vote needed!

[coxesorangepippin]

Got a meeting invite late tonight titled simply: Working from home'. Scheduled for half an hour. No additional info.

What are they gonna say?

Return to the office full time? Full time WFH???

Your guess is as good as mine. We're currently in once every two weeks.

Results posted in here tomorrow once the meeting has been held.

Yanbu = back to office
Yabu = WFH

I’m in school every day. Would hate to be wfh every day.

@CrabbiesGingerBeer

That's entirely different.

Your company has intentionally recruited on a WFH basis, and employees accepted as such.

Of course it's not fair to then decide that they must spend time on-site. (And contractually it wouldn't hold up anyway).

That's not OP's situation or what we are discussing.

Again, you've been unfortunate to work in very poorly structured and resourced organisations.

If the role was office based before covid then it was always possible to need to go back into the office.

I actually don’t know many people who are still WFH now, especially not FT.

I don’t get why the team are so annoyed that they potentially have to go back to doing the job that they applied for.

You're the one who mentioned changing terms and conditions, not me. You can't therefore say this isn't a case of changing them, especially as OP hasn't confirmed it either way. I specifically didn't say that because we don't have enough information, particularly not given the possibility of an implied change due to custom and practice. It doesn't much matter to my point anyway.

You initially said it's the employer's prerogative to decide on the terms of OPs employment. This is wrong, because all they decide is what basis they are willing to employ people on. This is not the same thing. You clearly get this because you're now trying to say that because you've decided something is 'rare' (prove your claim) that somehow means anything.

Also, you don't actually know whether the employer will recruit a replacement as needed, whether their decision stands (the manager seems to think otherwise) or whether they'll change it. These are all assumptions.

@EaEarringsandLipstick I have worked in lots of places. There is usually plenty of private space for better paid staff to have private zoom calls, but not lower paid staff. Unless you are lower paid you probably have no idea how virtually all forms treat us differently.
Before covid, I struggled on phone calls to call centres as there was often so much background noise. It is way easier now many are working from home.

Nothing you have written here, even the bits that are correct and that you haven't made up, negates what I have written.

All employment contracts are mutually accepted, or there won't be an employer and employee relationship. Makes no odds whether the initial offer was agreed or whether they negotiated, This is the case initially, and it's also the case thereafter where specific working arrangements will only exist because both the employer and employee have accepted and continue to accept them. By definition.

And no, it's not exactly your point. You can't suit all employees or employers, and this fact has no bearing on the reality that the both make a decision and there is no 'ultimate'.

And employers can not just change
contracts as they wish. There is law around this that has to be followed. It can lead to the employee opting for redundancy including redundancy money.

My current job before covid, a good chunk of my work time was spent listening to my bosses gossip and useless meetings. Every time I go back into the office I can't believe how little work I actually get done even though I am not doing anything I should not be.

I totally get this. With hindsight, I now realise how much time I used to spend doing non-productive things. But even now, when I’m having an office day, it’s quite possible to have a busy day but accomplish very little. Which is why WFH is so good for productivity.

Hope OP that one day a week is what happens in the end. Planned well you will get the benefits without too many of the drawbacks.

We all have different days in bar 1, sometimes it's like a ghost town.

To all those who wfh saying just get rid of the ones who aren't performing....It's not so easy to sack people just because they're lazy, especially if they've been employed for more than 2 years. If you try, it's a long drawn out process, with lots of chances, and often just being lazy isn't a good enough reason to sack someone as it has to be quantifiable. They'd have to be really bad, and you have to keep giving them chances to improve.If all those who don't like being made to go back, blame the lazy fuckers who are causing productivity to decline, not the businesses.Also, unless your contract says you can wfh, you're being unreasonable, and your employer has been good to let you continue past covid until now, so count your blessings. People are so entitled nowadays it's unbelievable. Also, if you're WFH, your dc and any pets should still be in child care or doggy care, as they would've been when you were in the office.There's no way you can be just as efficient if you've kids at home needing attention and pets needing letting out/walking multiple times a day.Anyone working from home should still have to have their dc in childcare away from their home, even in the school holidays.

Missing the point of the thread, but you posted at 0.53 saying the meeting was in half an hour. So meeting in the middle of the night? or perhaps you are not in UK. I agree though that once a fortnight sounds like a very small amount of time to spend in the office.

I think she meant that 1/2 hour was allocated for the duration of the meeting

Lol. After all this time why did they choose now - going into winter - with covid and flu etc?
Do they want you all to be off work with sickness?

Oh sorry just realised I think you mean the meeting was scheduled to last half an hour. Still find it strange that they told you about it late at night.

Ridiculous comment of the day.

To all those who wfh saying just get rid of the ones who aren't performing...

Or maybe find out what makes them tick and engage, motivate and inspire them instead?

I do agree young children should not be at home if there is no other parent to supervise them and parents should not be disappearing to drop/pick them up from school unless an emergency. They should also be available to go into the office if /when required during during normal working hours with just a days notice. Pets are fine as everyone needs a break from their desk, but they should have care readily available if they need to go in office - I kept my dog walker throughout covid/WFH. If I wasn't WFH my work would not have had me available 8am to 8pm today for various calls over different time zones.

Nothing is black and white and it is time everyone grew up and realised each situation should be assesed in its own context.

Agree this sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but i can't help wondering if the start/finish of the day thing is an attempt to stop school drop offs/pick ups turning into hours of non-availability

In fairness it doesn't much matter if the work can be done at oher times - providing it is done - but it's not much use if there are clients waiting or some other time sensitive issue

We’re moving towards a 4 day a week trial soon. Same pay, less hours. Most of us wfh. It’s MN’s idea of hell!

It keeps me very loyal to my company and I am very experienced and good at my job and could jump ship for more money, but wfh is worth thousands to me.

I get the work done. The nature of my work means I can spread it out. So I walk the dog twice for 20 mins. He sleeps the entire rest of the time and doesn’t even need toilet breaks (greyhound!). And 3x a week I take a longer lunch and swim - and extend my day where needed . This is important as I work with vulnerable people and I need to look after myself. I didn’t do this in the office well enough and with commute on top and ended up on medication. I’m off it now.

I work longer where needed and shorter when it’s quieter. It’s smart working and it makes me much better at my job and also so much happier - I am autistic and working in an office was not a happy experience for me. My job is people based so I talk all day on the phone - but I don’t need to see colleagues or socialise with them- happy to have meetings remotely.

Full WFH should be an option where possible. It enables many people to work smarter quicker and better. It’s not for everyone but neither is or was office work.

How long does it take for WFH to become part of t&cs even if the original contract was office based? Have there been industrial tribunals yet?

Employers can't now claim it is still an emergency situation.

"Also, if you're WFH, your dc and any pets should still be in child care or doggy care, as they would've been when you were in the office.There's no way you can be just as efficient if you've kids at home needing attention and pets needing letting out/walking multiple times a day.Anyone working from home should still have to have their dc in childcare away from their home, even in the school holidays."

I agree entirely that children of an age where they need on the spot attention should be in some sort of childcare as if their parents were actually on their business premises. I know some of my colleagues flout this and it's fairly obvious, they try to hide it but give themselves away regularly.

Pets I disagree with. We have a dog who usually curls up under my or DH's desk for much of the day, have a chew on hand to occupy her if mooching around and a meeting needs full concentration, she has a short run round the park at lunchtime, as well as longer walks before and after work because we don't have a commute to worry about and she usually goes out for a wee when one of us sticks the kettle on. In this hot weather the back door has been open for her to come and go as she pleases anyway. I can't think that our dog is unique in her lack of working time consumption. And everyone needs to get up and stretch their legs.

My point is that nurses are humans, and that weighing up pros and cons of working as a nurse versus working as an accounting assistant doesn't make them an awful person, or indeed nurse if that's what they decide to do. You seemed to be implying that nursing is a calling, a vocation, and that people should just do it for the love of it. Just because you want to be a nurse doesn't mean you don't also value a work life balance.

And actually the last three years has caused a mass exodus from nursing, not sure if you've missed that? Obviously it's not just that lots of other workers' conditions have improved (WFH), it's that NHS working conditions have worsened - wearing uncomfortable PPE, worsening staff to patient ratios, not getting breaks, more unpaid overtime, sicker patients, busier wards. And actually I'd argue that previously shift work had potentially more flexibility than office work - you could go to the bank on a Tuesday for example. Now people who WFH can pop out and do life admin, start later, finish earlier etc.

With regards to your final paragraph, my point was basically what you said originally - they need to make 'keyworker' roles more attractive (higher pay for example) or nobody will train or work in those roles. If you think those going into nursing just have to accept it's not like other jobs and put up with it, I hope you're prepared to accept no nurses in the workforce in 30 years. Wards are already propped up with agency staff and nurses in their 50s riding it out to their pension.

Except that productivity in the UK is currently awful. Most research supports that it’s usually due to poorly skilled managers and thus the lack in camaraderie in teams as well as being able to utilise individuals effectively.
So although you might think you’re managing your own work well, there’s clearly a huge issue which links to the wider needs of companies to allow and sustain any growth.

Perfectly reasonable. I'd suggest all going in for the same day for one of those days. Otherwise its pointless.

^

Sorry for potential drop feed but this is exactly what's been suggested (and what we currently do, bi weekly, Wednesdays).

So you'd be in on a Wednesday with all the team and then pick your own day of your choice, and then the second week you'd pick any two days that suits you.

Which leads me to think you could potentially only see the team once every two weeks on a Wednesday anyway.... so what's the point in the extra 3 days??

🤔