Physician’s associate introduced as Dr at GP surgery

[Elenor444]

The man I saw introduced himself as “Dr fhdjdj” so I assumed that I’d seen a GP.
Then only after the appointment I found out that my prescription was awaiting approval from a GP and that i’d actually not even seen a GP

should I write and complain?
anyone else been misled?

No they aren't. Sorry. Unless they have a PhD, which many won't, they aren't a doctor. They are a psychologist. Two different things.

None of the psychologists I have worked with in my 20 years in the NHS have used the title doctor.

But to be a psychologist you don't need to have a PhD nor are you a qualified doctor, therefore it is inaccurate for them to introduce themselves as a doctor. Even for those with a doctorate it muddies the water in a clinical setting imo, I've never worked with one who has referred to themselves as doctor.

Oh I thought they had phds to be able to work as a clinical psychologist, my mistake.

All types of NHS psychologists have a PhD. That is their standard qualification.

Maybe have a look at your local mental health Trust staff lists - psychologists use the title dr.

So feel free to say you disagree with it, but that is what currently happens.

So, we need all healthcare professionals to introduce by name and role. It's the only way people can be sure who they are working with. The title "Dr" is not a guarantee someone is a medical doctor.

Yes, you need a PhD to be a clinical psychologist.

To represent yourself as a medical doctor when you are not is a criminal offence. I assume psychologists make it clear they can't order you a scan or blood tests ?

No you do not, you need a 3 year postgraduate doctorate (taught) qualification to be a chartered Psychologist, some go on to do a research based PhD but the 2 are different.

Read more of gov.Uk if in doubt. It carries a prison sentence.

In a large community mental health team there will be a consultant psychiatrist, under which are multiple more junior psychiatrists and often medical students, as well as a nursing team leader and multiple mental health nurses and student nurses. A long side this there will be clinical psychologist under which are multiple associate psychologists and trainee psychologists. Both the clinical psychologist and the psychiatrists can use the title “doctor” as a representation of a minimum of 7 years training; a medical degree for the doctors, undergrad+masters+clinical training for the psychologist.

As I have clearly said I multiple posts, this is the reason why it's important for healthcare professionals to say what their role is and not to assume that doctor means medical doctor. Using the title Dr does not mean you are representing yourself as a medical doctor, it isn't a crime, it is common in some areas.

I agree that the situation described by the op is misleading, but if we were used to every professions saying "I am Dr X, I am the GP" or whatever, there'd be no room for any confusion.

In my surgery physicians associated are mainly qualified GPs (usually women) who don’t want to work as a GP. Just ask the practice manager.

Also, in most mental health teams, treatment is fairly fluid. Service users are normally seen by nurses in general, some of whom are therapy qualified, some of whom are nurse prescribers/ANPs. Nurses usually do the initial assessment/first assumed diagnosis and will involve a psychiatrist if they think the presentation is more complex medically or requires more detailed diagnostic work-or if medication is needed and they can’t prescribe. A service user will be referred to the psychologist if more complex psychological intervention is needed-or the nurse/psychiatrist needs advice. The hierarchy is much flatter than in physical healthcare and so generally the use of “doctor” here is much less misleading than in other clinical settings.

Fair enough, I didn't know that so will put my hands up to being wrong.

But the point is I've worked with load of psychologists and none have used the title Dr at work - presumably because they realise that it's confusing.

For example (just picking some bits off the internet at random) this article doesn't refer to Dr Ruth Dennis, and she presumably has a doctorate https://www.westlondon.nhs.uk/news/latest-news/finding-year-difficult-were-here-you-reach-out-free-nhs-talking-therapy-north-west-london

This NHS psychologist doesn't call herself dr https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-carr-95048492/?originalSubdomain=uk

nor this one https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-palmer-61078b28/?originalSubdomain=uk

so it certainly isn't ubiquitous that they use the title Dr.

And it's only 17 years ago that psychology training became a doctorate. So there will presumably be plenty of older psychologists without one.

Really? I've never seen a doctor working as a PA. I'm not sure it would be allowed as they haven't done a PA course.

Doctors are not allowed to be PAs. Many have tried as they earn more money ! Weird isn't it that we pay our doctors less than their associates for many years. Especially when the doctors have to sign off and prescribe for the associates.
And we wonder why they're striking next week,

Not just her mother who thought that - it was the coroner's conclusion and guidelines were updated accordingly that no patient should see a PA twice in a tow for the same issue.

Plenty do in camhs. My psychologists all used “DR” but everyone knew they were psychologists not medical doctors

It’s usually qualified doctors who stop practicising for family reasons here. They return as PAs. Where I am has a huge glut of doctors in this pool and so PA’s are usually qualified doctors.

are you in the USA or somewhere other than the UK?

As much as I agree that there are many issues with the use of PAs...

I find it somewhat ironic that there is so much anger about PAs on here yet MN loves 111 and are happy to be triaged or even diagnosed over the phone by someone with 2 weeks training and an algorithm. I suspect that is what the future holds for PA roles at GPs too.

Really? I thought 111 were universally acknowledged to be useless.

This!

Also, I have a PhD and worked in the NHS. It never occurred to me to call myself Dr. I wouldn't have wanted to create a false impression, given the environment. It's odd to me that anyone would.

I've not rtft but yes complain
I'm a allied health professional. The hospital I used to work at had many PA and while some were very good and understood their scope of practice the majority of the ones I met had a very self-inflated (and questionable) opinion of what their job actually was.

And it doesn't suprise me that they think they're Dr's.