Physician’s associate introduced as Dr at GP surgery

[Elenor444]

The man I saw introduced himself as “Dr fhdjdj” so I assumed that I’d seen a GP.
Then only after the appointment I found out that my prescription was awaiting approval from a GP and that i’d actually not even seen a GP

should I write and complain?
anyone else been misled?

I have a complex medication regime for my bipolar (stable for years). A physicians assistant wanted to change it- I said no thank you the mental health team do that you are not a dr.
They are a cheaper way for the NHS to bring in clinicians and they shouldn't be calling them drs

Please try and refrain from mixing Nurse Practitioners in with Physicians Associates in arguments about PAs. The former are registered to a professional body and are either non medical prescribing or able to prescribe under Patient Group Directive.
PA are not registered to any professional body yet and are not allowed to prescribe or PGD.
Only a doctor should be using the title Dr in a clinical setting, even if they are a PHD.

This. Does the receptionist actually know who is the PA/FY1 and know the difference between the types of training etc.

I’ve met many receptionists who don’t know what a GP/doctors training is. they know that PAs can’t prescribe ergo all staff who can’t prescribe are PAs

I actually think that it is better this way.

A lot of what GPs were doing was admin and routine tests.

I'd put in a formal complaint.

Please do complain. I work with (medical) Drs who would also like you to complain. It is misleading and leads to a breakdown in trust and confidence which is essential in a healthcare setting.

the gentleman may well have had a PhD in which case he should have said “I am Dr [Smith], I have a PhD in [pharmacology] and work in the practice as a physicians associate”

I think in future there will be a lot more PAs with science PhDs (as it is a well remunerated profession and often better paid than scientific post doc work) and the nhs needs to understand how these professionals can introduce themselves without misleading people

This is really bad. I am a nurse practitioner and I always make it very clear to pt's when I introduce myself at the beginning of the consultation. You cannot give informed consent if you do not know who you are talking to

It isn't just GP's and Physician's assistants is it though. There's also a huge issue in relation to HCA's presenting themselves and being presented as nurses. My GP practice refers to the HCA as the nurse.

It's high time there is absolute consistency across the NHS in the context of uniforms, name badges and introductions.

"Hello, I'm Jane Smith, GP Partner"
"Hello, I'm Susan Jones, salaried GP"
"Hello, I'm Fred Brown, Physician's Associate"
"Hello, I'm Mary White, Practice Nurse and/or Nurse Practitioner"
"Hello, I'm Ann Davis, HCA/phlebotomist"

I think it would help and it would also sweep away some of the patriarchy of doctors using patients' first names whilst introducing themselves with a title. It's just so mid 20th Century.

All qualified doctors spend several years as doctors in a hospital. They undergo GP training only after they've gained some hospital experience.

While they are training to be GPs they are of course supervised. It just means their practise is being overseen by your more experienced general practitioners. No
Doctor would introduce someone as a doctor unless they were.

FY1s can prescribe in hospitals.
I’m not sure you would get them in a GP surgery as it is very much a training grade although they are qualified doctors.

Govt like them because the qualification isn't recognised abroad, and no-one would pay privately to see them, so they can't leave the NHS.

Oh, who cares whether he had a PhD or not? By that logic, the window cleaner could sit behind a desk and mislead a patient into believing he was qualified to treat them by introducing himself as Dr. X.
Ridiculously disingenuous...

Many years ago I did a GP PRHO job (the equivalent of FY1) - but I had to get my prescriptions counter-signed. I'm pretty sure FY1 jobs in primary care aren't a thing now.

I am a non medical prescriber. I always make my title clear to patients (also wear a clearly identifying uniform).

There are two things that concern me about PAs:

1. The lack of regulation. They are not currently regulated by a professional body, genuinely don't know what happens in cases of clinical negligence, it's not like they can be struck from a register.

1. Seeing undifferentiated patients. I see clearly differentiated patients within my scope of practice. Seeing patients with any condition with any number of comorbidities takes training, skill and experience. I'm not convinced it can be taught it 2 years.

F1 doctors, who are qualified, after 5-6 years training, do not need to get their prescriptions signed off. They do the job of a doctor as that is what they are.
PAs are not. They have 2 years post grad training, can not prescribe or order certain scans. Unfortunately a few seem to think they are better qualified than the doctors. And the NHS is starting to think this too, giving PAs roles that doctors should be doing. It's not even like they are cheaper (£40,000 starting salary against £29,000 for a doctor). It seems someone wants our staff to be less trained in the NHS. Because then they can't leave to go abroad (as their qualifications are not recognised).
Nurse practitioners are very different and are highly qualified nurses with many year's experience in certain fields. They can prescribe.
It is a criminal offence in this country to represent yourself as a medical doctor if you are not.

health care professionals have a duty of candour- i.e to be honest with patients not just about any mistakes but about the remit of their specialisation. so they should always introduce themselves as name and role to avoid confusion. most of the doctors I know, many of them senior consultants never refer to themselves as Dr so and so when introducing themselves- instead they say hello I am first name I am one of the surgical/medical etc. doctors. nurses/PAs/advanced care practioners I know do the same. I know quite a few pHDs and none of them introduce themselves as Dr as it makes them sound like a twat show off.
one would think given the recent issues with PAs, they would be more careful?! definitely complain OP

@mycoffeecup usually in F2 I believe. They have to do a community based rotation at some point.

It's not even like they are cheaper (£40,000 starting salary against £29,000 for a doctor)
That's appalling 😱

They would do if working in primary care. In a hospital, their scripts are all done under the supervision of a consultant - in effect the consultant countersigns them all, but they don't actually follow them round the ward and sign them all!

A first year dr cannot prescribe in primary care as they aren't fully registered and I think that's why GP posts for first year doctors died out.

yes exactly - F2, by which time they are fully registered - in F1 they are only provisionally registered.

FY1 doctors can prescribe even though they only have provisional registration with the GMC for the first year. Prescribing drugs is pretty much one of their main drudge jobs on the wards in hospital...

Medical students can't prescribe and it is possible that you could have been seen by a medical student on clinical placement who took your history then scuttled off to present it to a doctor. I hope that isn't the case for OP though as a medical student would be in serious trouble for misrepresenting themselves as a doctor.

F1 doctors can prescribe, but their prescriptions are supervised by a fully registered doctor.

Many foundation training programmes these days include a primary care placement.

Some days there is no consultant to be found, as they are busy in surgery. When on call they just get on with it on their own. I assume the consultant gets his stamp and just adds it to hers late in the day ?
Supervision seems to mean there is someone somewhere in the hospital to help you.
If you can find them !

The more PAs we have, and the fewer doctors, we will get to a position where there are so many of them that they cannot be properly supervised by the very qualified doctors who are supposed to be supervising them. First, there won't be enough doctors to supervise , second, they'll be too bloody busy with their own complex cases and , third, they'll be clearing up and prescribing for the PAs. The dismayed doctors I know say that they will not sign off on plenty of PA work unless they've seen it, as "Ive prescribed antibiotics for Bills rash" could easily mean " Ive prescribed antibiotics for a guy who in fact has a blood clot". For which the doctor is legally responsible.

I expect hospital management will be keen, though. What a fuck up. Even more doctors are bound to leave as a result.

That isn't quite the same as advanced practice nurses working with people with stable long term conditions.

F1 doctors can prescribe and do so in hospital, with the nominal supervision of their consultant
An F1 doing a GP placement would have to get their scripts signed by someone else.