To conclude that some things are unforgivable ?

[Camero]

If someone you love, and who loves you, does things which are truly horrific to you; is it possible those things are unforgivable?

I know the first response will be "people who really love you don't do horrific things to you" - but actually sometimes they do.

If that happens and you truly love them and they truly love you and you both wish it had never happened, is it possible that some wounds are just irreparable?

I feel I have tried, and maybe "unforgivable" is the wrong word, but I can't undo the destruction. I feel a deep sense of loss, and I'm wondering if its unreasonable to think not everything can be fixed.

Even if you really wish it could. Even if not fixing it means you'll be a little bit sad for the rest of your life.

@Camero I x-posted with you, I think.

Forgiveness isn't the right word. I still love them so much it hurts. I still wish them every good thing in life. I just can't give them love (verb) anymore; because they've hurt me too badly.

You know, it's OK that you still feel that way, for now. Our hearts feel what they feel til they don't feel that way anymore. Acknowledge the feeling, but also acknowledge that you need to grow away from it. And you will, in time and with distance. And possibly counseling, if you think it would help. I'm sure it would, but you have to be open to it. As far as 'wishing them every good thing' you need to be honest with yourself as to why. Do you truly wish it or is it part of you that thinks you should as part of 'forgiveness' or the love you still feel. Because you don't have to wish them well. You can wish they get hit by a lorry, if that is the more honest feeling.

If this person is still in your life, either directly or through 'second hand' information I think it would be a good idea to cut them out (NC) and/or tell anyone who may still be in contact with them that you don't want to hear a single word about them. Not ever, not even that they've died. This person needs to 'cease to exist' for you.

Well I think if you love someone and their damage means they hurt themselves and destroy the things they care about, then it's hard to watch and you only want the best for them.

Love doesn't conquer all. There's some things it can't conquer.

Which was one of my points. We can love someone to distraction, but that doesn't mean they are right or healthy for us. And our love certainly can't 'heal' them.

And watching them destroy themselves isn't healthy or good, either. That's why it's best to go NC and hear nothing about them.

I completely agree.

I have some thing that’s are unforgivable, for example if my partner was to physically assault me I would not forgive them.

OP I agree that love doesn't conquer all. Personally I'm very cynical about people's capacity for change, I think your personality is what it is and while people can try to change their behaviour things are often too ingrained.

It's ok to protect yourself and accept that things won't be as they were before. It might even be easier to forgive the person if they are no longer a threat to you.

hmm. I’m an ex-damaged person (complex MH issues but through therapy I consider myself as cured as it’s possible to be) and I’ve done bad things to people I loved. I’ve had bad things done to me too (I’m talking largely about significant emotional betrayal and vindictiveness and very occasional physical abuse here, to clarify).

Except I didn’t love them, or them me. I thought I did, but I had no idea how to love healthily or what real love felt like. I had attraction to and affection for these people - many of whom also had unsolved issues of their own - but what was going on wasn’t love. It was trauma bonds, obsession, infatuation, addiction, many things.

I agree damaged people will do bad things that harm others without necessarily having a malicious intention, and that this is far more about them than anyone else, but I don’t think their version of love is a healthy or positive one. I don’t think anyone should feel obliged to forgive either just because the bad deed might come from trauma.

Someone who truly loves and cares for you will put your feelings before their own desires because they know how hurt you will be. Ýes, some things are unforgivable. Not just the initial harm caused but the echoes, if you forgive, will always be there. Forgiving is not forgetting, and often gives licence to repeat behaviour.

If someone treats you like shit, it doesn’t matter if they love you or not. The end result is that you are abused by them. Being abused by someone who loves you is not actually any better than being abused by someone who doesn’t love you. When my ex punched me in the face and broke my nose, it didn’t somehow hurt less because he loved me, or because he had an addiction. If someone behaves like a cunt, they’re a cunt, and their actual feelings towards you are irrelevant. Love is utterly worthless if it comes from someone who acts like they hate you.

And no, you absolutely shouldn’t forgive your ex. Get him out of your life.

Of course! Lots of things are unforgivable, and once done they cannot be undone with a "sorry".

I think that pressure to forgive is just a part of the largely misogynistic pressure on women to #bekind.

There are things I will never forgive, and that's my right.

Forgiveness doesn’t mean ignoring things, pretending they didn’t happen or didn’t matter. It doesn’t mean that trust is immediately or ever rebuilt or that things can go on as they are. Forgiveness means letting go of the anger and bitterness, not seeking revenge. Forgiveness is a choice, but it often requires making the same choice again and again.

It is a good thing to be able to forgive, because it lets you move on without being constantly tied up in the bad situation. But it is a very different thing from deciding that the right, wise and good thing to do is work at rebuilding the relationship into something that can survive. That needs both of you to be committed and willing to keep choosing to do that hard work.

Being unfaithful is a complete deal breaker for some of my friends, not for me.

A friends husband had a gambling issue (shares) early in their marriage, she forgave him spending joint savings and moved on.
I would NEVER forgive that...ever.

Likewise anyone laying a hand on me.

Another friend tried to forgive her husband a fling she found out about more than two years after it occurred but she found that it was eating away at her and how she felt about herself.

Fortunately not having had children she divorced him quickly, and was able to forgive him then.

He was genuinely heartbroken and his family were really devastated, especially his mum.

She met someone else and has two children now and never been happier.

He remarried too but hasn't had children.

His relationship with his mum never fully recovered which is interesting as it seems she never quite forgave him, but that could have beeen wrapped up in him not having children, who knows.

My friend remained very fond of his lovely mother till her death.

Forgiveness is very complicated.

Acceptance is sometimes more realistic.

I suppose it depends how you're setting the bar of "horrific" to me horrific would be physical or sexual violence, and no, I don't think whatever the background of the perpetrator that it would be committed by someone who loves you, nor would they be deserving of forgiveness.

Cheating, whilst awful, I wouldn't call "horrific".

People have asked me to be specific and I've not done as its long and boring, but this sums it up:

Someone who truly loves and cares for you will put your feelings before their own desires because they know how hurt you will be

They didn't do that. They consistently didn't do that, and what they did doesn't matter as much as the damage inflicted.

I think cheating comes in many flavours. It can be horrific. Depending what's done, with whom, and how the person treats you in the aftermath.

I've seen cheating happen that I think it far worse than being hit or raped (and I've been both hit and raped).

Then you have your answer OP. Forgiveness, in this case, is not for you. Move on, it will hurt less with time. Not forgiving is a reminder to keep yourself safe from further harm; don't brood or seek vengeance but distance yourself from whoever has caused you to feel like this. Then you can heal.

I think it depends how you define forgiveness. A lot of people equate forgiving and forgetting and think that after forgiving someone you go back to how you were before.

But I think it's perfectly possible to forgive someone and yet choose not to have them in your life, for example. In some scenarios those boundaries might be necessary.

Forgiving is an active choice, just like loving. So not forgiving is also an active choice that you keep on making and I think it can be harmful to keep focusing on old wrongs.

So to me very little is unforgivable because choosing not to forgive harms me and them. But forgiving and moving on with your life can be a healthy thing to do.

In most circumstances however, I'd try to repair the relationship.

This is so well put.

I know the first response will be "people who really love you don't do horrific things to you" - but actually sometimes they do
No, op. They just don't.

That depends though doesn't it?

Somebody suffering an illness that effects their personality and behaviour could hurt you and be completely horrified by what they'd done after treatment. Of course that doesn't change what happened and nobody is under any obligation to forgive.

My son loves me, but his meltdowns have meant trips to A&E for me. I forgive him, and I know he hates meltdowns and is trying to keep himself emotionally regulated and to avoid becoming overwhelmed.

Ridiculous and offensive to say that being cheated on is worse than being raped or abused with violence.

You sound very damaged.

There is a massive difference between forgiving and forgetting.
forgiving sits entirely with the victim - it’s about letting go of the active pain and distress the act has caused you, and coming to a place of acceptance. And then being able to let go and move on with your life. It is an act of release from the pain it causes you. It is releasing you from the ball and chain of carrying that burden around with you in life.
Some people have a capacity, usually driven by a Christina concept, to forgive quickly in words and as an active act. And may even say this to the person who caused the act. But, imhe, that is rare.
Most people reach a place at some point of being able to forgive . It’s sort of needed for your own mental health . But that can take going through the grief pathway, or developing some understanding of why the person did the act towards you- that can take years and years

Forgetting is literally wiping it from your memory. That’s a completely different thing, and probably not very helpful in a lot of cases to try to aim for. or even positive dangerous,

forgiving doesn’t require you to “make up” witch the individual. Nor does it even mean you need to make any contact ever again. It certainly doesn’t require an act of telling the, you forgive. It is for you, and you alone , to be able to move past the act into acceptance of what happened and why, and not carrying it around with you as hating the individual - which is very destructive and most people committing these acts don’t give tuppance whether you hate them or not.

I am carrying a deep and profound hurt inflicted by a family member that I love very much.

The damage done cannot be undone and I don’t think I can ever trust, or feel exactly like I did before. It happened and nothing will undo that.

Perhaps forgiveness means different things to me. It’s not a one off, wave of the arm kind of thing, but more of an ongoing practice of letting go of anger and resentment and finding compassion and love instead.

I do think it’s an important practice - not for the other person as much as for myself. I only hurt myself with hard emotions. They’re living their life oblivious.

But it’s also a part of healing to be realistic about the pain caused and not brush it away.

I find it’s better not to think in terms of forgiveness, but rather “in what way did their actions reframe your relationship with them?”

For example, my sister did something to me that really hurt and made me realise that she doesn’t have my back. When push comes to shove, she will always take the easy route and while it hurts to accept that, it’s who she is, so there is nothing to forgive, but we will never be close again.

Forgiveness may or may not come with time, but the important part is to determine if or to what extent they will remain in your life.

I've seen cheating happen that I think it far worse than being hit or raped

That is your subjective opinion, which you are entitled to, but you are not the authoritative voice and likely in a minority. Speaking hypothetically if I were to agree with you, if someone cheated to the extent it was "horrific", and worse than rape, that person did not love the person they were with, so my point would still stand. People who love you, don't do "horrific" things to you, no matter how damaged they may be.

Some things are unforgivable. What my ex did to me (not affair) was exactly that and even though at times I wished we could roll back the clock it was something that couldn’t be undone.