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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DS 'next of kin'?

61 replies

janeaustensstuntdouble · 10/09/2023 12:24

Bit of backstory, sorry for length: DS1(30)'s bio father left when he was a baby. It was an unplanned pregnancy and he basically couldn't cope with the commitment. A year later I met my DH, who has been dad ever since. We had two more DCs and have always treated all three entirely equally. Ex drifted in and out (mostly out) for a few years, has never paid a penny in any support, and then we lost contact for quite a while (I discovered he was living abroad, but has since moved back). For the last ten years we've been amicably in touch via social media, have spoken on the phone once and messaged a few times; same with him and DS - they've spoken and messaged but not met face to face since DS was a child. DS doesn't seem particularly bothered - he has his own very busy life, Ex lives a very long way from him, and myself, DH, and the other DCs are his family.

However, Ex did mention briefly at one point that DS was his 'next of kin'. I didn't pursue it with him at the time, but I think this would be correct as he had no further children and has been single for a number of years. He has one other sibling and some nieces/nephews, but that's it. I mentioned this to DS, but we are unsure of what that might mean in a practical sense, and neither of us feels particularly comfortable to ask Ex any more about it.

Also, I do wonder if this means Ex plans to leave his estate to DS, or if this would automatically happen anyway? If this is the case (and here's where I'm probably BU) I can't help feeling that would somehow be unfair on our other DCs after we've strived so hard to keep everything equal between them. In mine and DH's wills we have split everything exactly equally between all three. It doesn't seem fair if DS1 then might inherit a load from another 'dad' who was never in the picture.

DH thinks it's not our business and says if that happens, it is what it is. Also, there's a lot of 'ifs' involved - Ex might meet someone else (he's late 50s) and we know nothing of his business or finances, etc etc. I'm sure he's right, and know life isn't always fair and equal and all our DCs are making their own way in the world now, but still, I wonder if IAB entirely U to feel this way?

Also, can anyone shed light on what 'next of kin' might actually mean for DS?

OP posts:
MammaTo · 10/09/2023 13:17

If your ex was to pass away without a will (and name an executor) then your son would have to follow the rules of intestacy and I believe (I could be wrong!) if he doesn’t remarry or have a civil partner then children would be next of kin to deal with his dads estate.

saoirse31 · 10/09/2023 13:17

Im actually shocked that you're thinking it would be unfair to your oldest ds. He had lived knowing his father has little interest in him, for his entire life. And yet all that seems important to you is that your other two children who have lived with their two parents all their life are somehow being disadvantaged by ds possibly inheriting from his father. I'd wonder how much your ds knows about feelings about him as opposed to your feelings about your other children. Whether you've said anything or not I'd imagine that he's a very good idea how you feel.

saoirse31 · 10/09/2023 13:20

Given your post at 12.45 , you're cleatly determined to regard your ds inheriting anything as not being fair to your other children. Your poor ds.

babbscrabbs · 10/09/2023 13:20

YABU, kindly, your ds has had to live with his father dipping in and out of his life, you can't always make everything exactly equal and you're overthinking it.

NeunundneunzigHorseBallonz · 10/09/2023 13:25

I imagine that if your ex goes to hospital or has an accident where medical decisions need to be made, your DS will be the first person who is called by the hospital or emergency services. As for any inheritance, it would be weird if DS didn’t inherit.

KateyCuckoo · 10/09/2023 13:26

Plus he's 30, he doesn't even need to tell you if he inherits from his father. It is literally none of your business and you are being very unreasonable to have any thoughts on the matter.

ThreeLittleDots · 10/09/2023 13:26

I imagine that if your ex goes to hospital or has an accident where medical decisions need to be made, your DS will be the first person who is called by the hospital or emergency services

This only happens on TV. Next of kin (outwith power of attorney) do not make medical decisions in the UK, doctors do.

ImustLearn2Cook · 10/09/2023 13:27

Your son is a 30yr old adult. I am presuming his siblings are adults too (considering that you met your dh a year later).

It’s good that you as parents made sure that they were all treated equally.

But, any one of your children could come into a significant amount of money through a variety of ways: marrying a billionaire, winning the lottery, making an investment that profits massively, writing a best seller that gets turned into a movie, helping someone who rewards them or leaves them money in their will, getting a promotion with a massive pay increase etc.

They are adults now. They will lead independent lives and have independent opportunities.

Your husband is right. It is not anyone else’s business and it is between them. Just as it would not be anyone else’s business if one of your other adult children decided to marry a billionaire and be left a significant inheritance from their spouse.

Movingandlooking · 10/09/2023 13:28

I'm dhs next of kin. When he went to hospital and I wasn't aware in an emergency I didn't get a phone call. Dh was in and out quite quickly thank fully and he didn't want to worry us. It would only be if dh asked the hospital or maybe if he was at the point of passing or passed I believe.

andrainwillmaketheflowersgrow · 10/09/2023 13:31

Treating children fairly doesn't always mean treating them in the same way.

determinedtomakethiswork · 10/09/2023 13:31

Equal isn't the same as fair. If your first child's life was equal to his siblings' then his dad would've stuck by him.

Workawayxx · 10/09/2023 13:31

your dh is right, you can’t worry about this as who knows what will happen. Your dc (all 3) will see that you’ve kept things equal from your side and that’s all that will matter. Even if things do become “unfair” due to ds inheriting from his bio dad, as a pp said, he has had the rejection from his dad to deal with his whole life so has had that “unfairness” to deal with.

CecilyP · 10/09/2023 13:34

Also, I do wonder if this means Ex plans to leave his estate to DS, or if this would automatically happen anyway?

If ex is on the birth certificate and he dies intestate, your DS would inherit everything. So what difference for it make if he writes a will to say the same thing. You cannot expect him to leave anything to children that are not his just because they are part of the same family,

Takacupokindnessyet · 10/09/2023 13:35

Either ask your ex outright what goes intentions are or keep out of it and what will be will be.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 10/09/2023 13:39

Aside form inheritance…next of kin does have some legal meanings your son needs to be aware of

  1. if his dad becomes mentally incapacitated at some point in future, and needs to be detained under mental act, or even “just” deprived of liberty (eg develops certain dementia behaviours) then your son become “nearest relative” by default. He will be asked for his opinion about his dads wishes etc. he can refuse, in which case this will pass to next nearest relative
  2. similalry as next of kin he may be contacted and asked to make key medical decisions like do not resuscitate or withdrawing life support. Again he can refuse to get involved.
  3. if he dies intestate, and with no executor, your son will be responsible for a whole raft of admin exercises to do with registering the death, funeral arrangements, and applying for the grant of register. That’s needed even if his dash as nothing but debts - those still need to be resolved to right off .
  4. he’ll also be first to be notified in event of his dads death,

However, none of those things are stuff you want to be dealing with in heat of moment. It’s also not helpful for nhs, local councils trying to deal with someone who can express their own wishes at critical crisis points. It needs to be resolved now.

The best way is for your ds to look up all stuff he may be contacted for and decide now if it’s something he’d even want to do or feel capable of doing. If not he needs to write a letter to his father saying he will not be acting as next of kin, and to tell him explicitly not to use his name with nhs etc as NOK. and that his dad is best advised to put a LPOA in place (both types) and a will with nominated executor, to ensure he (dad) knows who will manage these decision- attorneys and executor nominated need to agree they’ll undertake roles, when it’s signed ahead of needing it.

if you talk to your ex again, make this point too, say unless he puts LPOAs in place, and has a will, next of kin is meaningless if son can’t or won’t be involved for whatever reasons. And that’ll just cause his son unnecessary distress at time. Ex needs to nominate attorney with attorneys consent and get it formalised into LPOA. He needs to get an executor as well. Some people appoint solicitors in absence of other relatives, wanting to do it, or being capable of doing it.

I believe Scottish law is different, and is different about children’s inheritance . So look that up if it applies.

ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine · 10/09/2023 13:41

One of your children could end up much richer than the others by having a lucrative career, marrying into money, or even winning the lottery. It's just the way life works out sometimes.

Original poster
janeaustensstuntdouble · 10/09/2023 13:42

Thanks for everyone's replies - certainly food for thought. I'll ignore those who assume what I'm thinking this somehow reflects badly on how I feel about my DS - this absolutely couldn't be further from the truth, but I may not have given enough information and I nor wouldn't want to here. It's precisely the opposite - I've never wanted my DS to feel ANY different to his siblings, but perhaps that was naive of me.

Suffice to say that it's not about any real or imaginary inheritance (I've stated a number of times that I know this is not my business) but the feelings involved, which I know make no sense. I'm going to have to leave it there while I think it through some more, but thanks for all the replies.

OP posts:
ThreeLittleDots · 10/09/2023 13:43

Appleofmyeye2023

None of this is true

andrainwillmaketheflowersgrow · 10/09/2023 13:46

I've never wanted my DS to feel ANY different to his siblings, but perhaps that was naive of me.

With respect - yes, it is naive. He's not the same as his siblings because his dad wasn't in the picture and he was raised by his step-dad. No matter how lovely your DH is and how wonderful your DS's childhood was, he still didn't have his dad in the same way the others did.

daytriptovulcan · 10/09/2023 13:47

What a ridiculous post. You can't control or influence who the Ex might leave his estate to upon death... it might be a small compensation to DS for having had a useless father over the decades. As to whether you think it's unfair, I image thats no concern of your Exs.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 10/09/2023 13:52

ThreeLittleDots · 10/09/2023 13:26

I imagine that if your ex goes to hospital or has an accident where medical decisions need to be made, your DS will be the first person who is called by the hospital or emergency services

This only happens on TV. Next of kin (outwith power of attorney) do not make medical decisions in the UK, doctors do.

They are notified and they are consulted on medical matters (if time permits) . When my mum died, my dad was asked to confirm he was in agreement to turn off her life support. It is one of most difficult things to do. Usually NOK don’t disagree with doctors- but court cases do come up (usually NOK loose as doctors and ethical committee usually know what they are doing)

The “nearest relative” DOES have legal rights under the mental health act . Those rights extend quite far. Im nearest relative (as NOK given it is same thing) , for my 87 dad, with LBD. He’s sectioned. Previously he was deprived of liberty . They have to keep me informed . I’m invited to weekly ward rounds for instance, which is standard for nearest relative. I could theoretically apply for him to be discharged under mental health act- but that’s usually a rare and extreme thing.

yes, I agree a LPOA gives a lot more rights to attorney. I’d always, and do always, recommend it to anyone. I’ve had them since they became LPOA and am in my 60s. My DSs are acting together, and they know where my expression of wishes is that details a lot of stuff about how I would want to be cared for and how to manage my finances.

.

zeibesaffron · 10/09/2023 13:54

I agree with your DH - its none of your business what his bio dad leaves/ doesn’t leave your son in his will - or from his estate. Many things can happen between now and then so why are you worrying about something you have no control over. You cannot make this equal for all 3 kids.

ThreeLittleDots · 10/09/2023 14:02

Appleofmyeye2023

I am informed, thank you. Next of kin has no automatic legal rights / power in and of itself, whatsoever.

NOK should not be asked to make or influence on medical decisions. This was made very clear to me by the doctor who turned off my father's life support. It was made extremely clear that I had no responsibilty.

Nobody may be compelled to act as executor/administrator of an estate. They simply return form PA15 and send it to the court.

Your link decribes how the nearest relative can decline to act.

There is nothing about being someone's NOK that legally compells them to do anything they don't want to do.