Do you agree with school or the parents?

[Watermelon44]

Our high school has made the news because of a uniform dispute between (some) parents and the head who is recently in post.

The gist of it is that the school brought in a new rule in April that they were no longer allowing black leather trainers (eg superstars or nike air force) and instead the kids should be in smart plain black leather office shoes.

This appears to have caused ww3 with some parents, who despite having many months notice, still sent their kids in the banned trainers (100+ children apparently). The school has stuck to its guns and has isolated and then suspended those in the wrong shoes if they refused to comply.

The school has also banned girls from wearing socks, and have enforced a thick tights ruling, although socks are allowed in the summer term and if allowed by the head in any warm spells (eg the past 3 days).

Personally I think the tights ruling is worse and I have mixed views on the trainers rule.

I am interested in the real reasons behind these strict uniform rules as I feel if the real reasons were shared with parents they may be more on board with them, rather than the usual rubbish about dressing professionally eg like in an office, when my dp works in a head office in London and goes in jeans and trainers!

As this seems to have whipped up a storm locally, I am interested in other people’s views on this topic as some of the parents round here seem to have gone totally bats*it over it!!

Whilst I support school uniforms I think some English schools have got carried away with micromanaging.

Thankfully it doesn't happen (as far as I know) in my part of the Uk.

Is this mainly an English school issue? I’ve never seen this type of strict enforcement of hair, hems and shoes etc in a Scottish school.

Really it’s only “plain black footwear” but that can be any of personal choice, and doesn’t apply to PE. We also don’t seem to have the issues with logo’d uniform (other than blazers, which are often available for free, pre loved, from the schools). No Scots I’m aware of are spending £50+ per mandatory school jumper.

That makes no sense, though, because if they want them to look like office workers they shouldn't be making them wear a uniform at all. How many offices do you know that send women home for having visible branding on their shoes or insist that everyone wears a blazer with the same crest on the pocket and matching ties?

Not that I think schoolkids should look like office workers, given that a) they are not in an office, b) their day isn't remotely like that of an office worker and c) they are children.

School uniforms are fine in theory, but most schools push them to a ridiculous extent and impose weird rules that aren't at all logical (or, in many cases, practical) and they often cost parents a fortune. They also seem to ban items (and haircuts) for the sole reason that they have become fashionable. For example, the skin-fade haircuts that are fashionable for boys are actually very smart and practical - literally a short back and sides. When that sort of haircut wasn't trendy, and was basically considered to be like the embarrassing haircut your grandad got given when he got called up for national service, schools would have loved boys to have that kind of style. But now they're banned in lots of schools, purely because they're trendy at the moment.

Crosspost

It's definitely much more of a thing in England. I've got family and friends in Scotland and all their kids are allowed to wear black trainers, Kickers, Docs etc.

Parents on both. Shiny shoes is a daft rule anyway - far less practical than trainers - but if you are going to change the rule you need to give time. Tights business is creepy as fuck.

Our school has same rule re tights. Only allowed socks in summer term and permission during this heatwave. Winter term is black tights.

If you don’t agree with the rules don’t send your child or address it sensibly with the school, you can’t ignore whatever rules don’t suit you.

Shoes I understand because trainers are for PE in school and shoes are for other occasions. I’d only be annoyed if kids were not allowed shoes with Velcro because that’s tough on disability. Even if a dispensation is made it draws attention to that.

The tights is weird because traditionally socks would have been the thing. We were not allowed to wear tights until year 10 and my SIL wasn’t allowed tights even the sixth form. Plus it can be too hot

Have you seen the length of skirts some girls wear? I should imagine they've decided that if a girl wants to wear a skirt in the winter then she must wear tights.

Easier than having an arbitrary length of skirt that no one will adhere to.

I'm guessing if girls want to wear socks rather than tights they can wear trousers

Yep shoes I understand - although I don't agree with it.

But the tights. That's awful. Why does someone else think they get to decide how warm someone is and their need to wear tights or not? I wear dresses to work right through until it's about 16°. I hate hot legs.

@egowise

'They can wear socks in summer term'

Yes because they aren't dickheads. They get that it's not fair to ask girls to wear thick tights in the summer but are trying to mitigate the minuscule skirt situation for the rest of the year.

Does your dress sit just below your bum?

I dont agree with putting children into uniforms. I discard all the baseless arguments about it placing all children on a level and doing away with bullying. The kids in second hand ill fitting uniforms will still get bullied and looked down on by their companions from better off homes. Believe me I speak from personal experience. I was at school in the 1950s long before there were designer logos and it still happened. My uniforms came from the second hand market and hand me downs. The result was that they never fitted properly and I always looked untidy. I later realised that this was why I was never chosen as a prefect. This was despite being academically bright and often representing my house in both individual and group competitions.

People argue that it teaches children discipline and rule following. We are living in an are when even conservative professions tend to wear smart casual in the office and may keep one formal outfit for court or client meetings. Yet we send out kids of learn wearing uncomfortable and outlandiss gear which bears no resemblence to anything they will wear in the real world.

If you are going to have uniforms there should be a strict limit on the number of branded items the school should be able to impose. I would outlaw the concept of having to purchase from the school supplier when there are good quality supermarket alternatives available. Putting young kids into isolation because their parents cannot afford the "correct" uniform is a breach of their human rights. I believe that outlaws "cruel and unusual" punishments and there can be little more cruel than singling out a young child because of something beyond their control.

I saw a news article recently where a school had banned dental retainers (clear ones as well). Which is just an absolute disgrace. That is a medical issue not a fashion choice!

Schools should just get on with bloody educating instead of fucking around with uniform. Who really gives a fuck what the kids wear, it doesn't stop them learning.

I think both rules are nonsense but the tights one is ridiculous. I loathe tights and always have done, I'd rather wear leggings under a skirt. Do the girls at this school have to wear skirts?

I think schools live in a past world where everyone wore a suit and tie / dress daily. Most people / jobs just don't adhere to these kinds of rules anymore and why should they? We should dress for comfort, practicality and (if we wish) to feel good about ourselves.

School shoes v. trainers has become more and more pointless since clothing companies now make trainer-like shoes and most grown ups I see wear them on a regular basis at work and in public. Shoes marketed as school shoes for kids often look like trainers anyway.

But there is very little if any choice of secondary school so hardly like most parents can choose a different school if they don't like the controlling nature of the uniform policy at their local school.

Don’t start me! As you know it’s been hot this week, we’re in Scotland where blazers must be worn at all times so everyone at the school looks smart. Even in the Winter when it’s freezing cold and pouring down no winter jackets allowed, must be blazers, there’s no lockers or anywhere to store a jacket so kids have a soaking wet blazer on.

The uniform for a lot of the girl this year is black high top Converse, white ankle socks, fake tan and a skirt so short you can see their hot pant modesty shorts. Shorter than their blazers. If my son wore shorts he’d be sent home yet the girls are wearing ridiculously short skirts. I’m all for wearing what you like but the double standards is ridiculous

if I were in charge everyone would be in black trousers blazer in Summer and a school winter jacket in winter (primary schools have them)

What StudentNurse3 said. I can sort of see the argument for a private school - but for a lot of there's one or two state secondaries we're in catchment for.

In your opinion they aren't 'dickheads'

Perhaps if they weren't so draconian about the uniform, the girls wouldn't do that

In my opinion these kinds of rules are thought up by dickheads

I don’t know what schools are supposed to do about skirt lengths nowadays - they are beyond ridiculous. And so many parents of girls don’t seem to think it’s a problem. It’s embarrassing - you can see literally everything and it’s just not appropriate.

If only parents could come up with some sensible solutions instead of constantly berating schools 😞

Exactly this. It's antiquated and most of the world doesn't adhere to it.

Children who are comfortable in what they're wearing will be much less distracted.

And the posters saying "don't send them to the school if you don't like the uniform rules", seem to think we all have a huge choice in where our kids go to school. My DC had no uniform at primary but every secondary in our area has a uniform - although thankfully no silly rules about tights.

I wear a uniform to work over half the staff wear sketchers as they are on their feet most of the day .. they are comfy like trainers …
people talk about preparing children for the workplace - very few will be required to wear a formal uniform ..

schools waste time on what are real issues

Random thoughts.

I think some schools are zealous about uniform because they are unable for whatever reason to be strict about much else, and hope it sets a tone. Partly because of the influence of those parents who for whatever reason engage in what MN calls lazy parenting.

Skirt lengths I agree have become ridiculous and girls/young women having to sit awkwardly or be forever adjusting their skirt is not good for concentration, never mind anything else.

The observation about choice in reality not offering much choice I agree with, as often all schools in an area have similar policies. Not the only area where choice in schooling in theory is little in practice, for example almost all have the same start and finish times, not only adding to traffic congestion, but different hours suit different people.

Can't see a problem with plain black trainers.
And shorts under skirts would solve the modesty issue.

Honestly it's all ridiculous- it gets worse every year - they are children- not office workers, wear comfortable clothes/ branded unbranded it doesn't matter- I live in Portugal/ state schools have no uniform. Kids will always bully for any and any reason. I personally think forcing parents to shell out obscene amounts of money on uniforms every year is awful. Short skirts I get- make a length limit - they always did when I was at school in late 90s/early 00s. I look at my secondary school now with awful blazers on trying to make the kids look like they are from a posh school- just stupid. Kids and families need to be supported not thrown into isolation or exclusion for clothing - utterly ridiculous