To think the social services have already made up their minds?

[Anon171880]

My 27 year old sister has children who were taken from her care. Eldest who is 9 is currently in care of paternal aunt. Youngest two are in foster care.
All started from her getting cancer a couple of years ago. She had extensive treatment but needed a stem cell as she relapsed. Had to spend almost a month in hospital for the stem cell then was unwell a lot so had to put youngest two in temporary foster care. She was in and out of hospital, always getting Ill and after everything she had been through she started drinking more.
Youngest were already in foster care anyway but SS recently took 9 year old and gave her to her dad's sister. She's so miserable there, even though they insist she's doing well. She's always upset when her cousins see her at school, she says she can't even cry when she's at her aunt's because she gets into trouble. This auntie only ever saw her once in a blue moon so they weren't close. I've just had an assessment to have her with me and should find out tomorrow if I passed but even HV thinks they have already made up their mind.
I have 4 children already but used to have my niece and sister staying with me temporarily before. We are a really close family and she's used to being here and around her cousins. She has said she wants to stay with me but I just feel like they have already made up their minds and I'm bound to fail.

Has the emotional abuse towards the child been reported and is the child saying to them that she is unhappy?

@Ponoka7 yes, and their response is that when they see her she's getting on well. We aren't even allowed to see her anymore so she has not only been taken away from her mum but her aunt's and grandparents are not allowed to see her because they say it upsets her! She gets upset because she wants to be with her mum FFS!! She can see paternal side of the family anytime, this is the side of family that barely bothered with her. Her nan used to see her at school when she was dropping off her step grandson and totally refuse to acknowledge her! And there the ones who have all the rights!

It does sound as they they will get granted residency. Why didn't your solicitor go for contact rights via court? Why didn't your side take them when things went bad? I think that you have to accept the situation and grab whatever you can without talking about the child living with you etc when you see her. She will one day get to choose who she lives with.

@Ponoka7 oh I don't speak with my nice about her coming and staying with me as of course I don't know if that's even possible so don't want to give her false hope. She said this herself when we saw her, begging not to go back to her other aunts and to come to mine instead.
With regards to my side having the children when it got bad, i was pregnant and then had a premature baby, my sister was going to stay back at my parents when she came out of hospital so they couldn't have the youngest two there. My niece was staying with my parents when my sister was having the stem cell and then back with her mum until last month.
I don't even know how to go about having visitation rights but will definitely be something I'll look into. Because it's really not fair that she can't be around her family who have been a part of her life pretty much daily since birth.

What are the long term plans for the children? Is mum likely to have them living with her again?

Can you get your own solicitor and apply for custody of her?

well if you had a premature baby you might not have been able to cope with her as well, that will be taken into account

I would hope they do what is best for the children long term

@Gingerkittykat she is trying to do what she can to get the kids back with her but it's not known yet what the outcome will be. @BorrowedThyme yes but he's not 16 months old and doing well so not so much of an issue now. The assessment was done last Friday. Some people struggle with 1 child, some have many and find it easy, I don't find it easy but adding a 9 year old to the mix won't really make much difference.

That is actually quite a worrying attitude that is likely to count quite heavily against you.

Adding a 9 year old to the mix should make a difference!

saying it wont make a difference implies that you expect her to slip seamlessly in without causing a ripple

A traumatised and bereaved child should be causing many ripples! And you need to be explaining how you are going to anticipate and accommodate her extra needs, not telling social services that having her there won't make any difference to you

So yes, you will fail the assessment if you are saying things like that

Good luck op hope you get the outcome you want x

@BorrowedThyme no it won't make a difference in terms of my capability to parent children. I am more than capable. And this child is also my niece that was living with me with her mum up until her getting taken. She is not a stranger to me, I know her very well and took care of her a lot when needed. During times her mum was rushed to hospital. Of course I've told them how I will accommodate her extra needs and so on. She's also traumatised and bereaved because not only has she been ripped away from her mum but also her aunties, grandparents and cousins who she saw on a daily basis and spent regular time with. So as I previously said, it won't make much of a difference to me and managing children!

The child isn’t bereaved, though — her mother will hopefully recover and be able to have her children living with her again.

OP, it does all sound a bit chaotic. How did it get to the point where two of your sister’s children were placed in foster care in the first place, given that they seem to have a lot of relatives, plus you mention that your sister drinks as well as has been seriously ill, and that while SS are happy for the children to spend time with their father’s relatives, while you and your family ‘aren’t allowed to see them, despite having been part of their lives, while their paternal relatives weren’t? You say this is because they ‘get upset’, but that doesn’t sound likely.

Bluntly, are there safeguarding concerns with your sister (on top of her illness), and with your family?

Where is the children’s father?

@MyFetch so basically when my sister had to go into hospital for her stem cell transplant, her immune system would basically be depleted and any little bug could have caused her serious complications. She wouldn't have been able to take care of two young children. My parents both have health issues and work, the youngest two do not have the same father as the eldest so the decision was made to place them in temporary foster care till she recovered enough. This wasn't taken lightly but their other side of the family weren't in positions to have them. That's initially why the youngest were in foster care.
My sister couldn't have them back as soon as she thought because she was constantly in and out of hospital and the stem cell really took its toll on her health. She had heart issues, blood clots, numerous infections where she had to be admitted. And constant fatigue.
SS expected that she would be right as rain after the stem cell but her consultant even got involved to explain to them that it was a long recovery.
My sister was honest with ss about her drinking and at first they weren't concerned but then it all turned around one day and they told her she couldn't have the youngest back.
They wanted to take the eldest too but the courts declined. In the end though they agreed to place her with her paternal aunt because my sister was not yet teetotal.
She gets to see the children supervised twice a week and sometimes we would go and meet up with them in a park for example. The eldest is always upset when she sees her mum because she wants to go with her but can't. The social worker later applied to court to stop us being able to see her solely because they said she gets upset.

I can understand why you would think there would be more to it as even family and friends have questioned if there is more but this is it. SS want the youngest children's foster parents to adopt them! And for eldest to stay with her aunt.
There are no concerns with us at all. I don't even think they would have done assessment if that was the case. My mum, dad and other sister all work in schools. My dad's a teacher. Definitely no concerns with us at all.
I honestly can't believe how far this has all escalated. My sister is sober now and has asked for an alcohol monitor on her ankle to prove this too

Im sorry OP i know youve explained alot but the fact of the matter is i find it very very odd that your parents/immediate family members haven't stepped in and rallied round before social services are even involved.

I know my own family would do whatever it took and have done, before any social services would even need to think about stepping in.

@Toastiesforever my parents couldn't have taken care of their daughter whilst recovering from cancer as well as two babies. They had the eldest but couldn't take on twins under 1 years old too. It just wouldn't have been possible with working and my sister's cancer diagnosis really took its toll on my mum too. Nobody expected it to escalate like this. My sister voluntarily got SS involved whilst she was in hospital, not for them to be taken and refusal to give them back. But yes I have has this conversation with my family before that we should have done more but taking on twins would have been difficult.

@Toastiesforever like I said above, more should have been done but none of us expected things to escalate the way they have. And the fact of the matter actually is that my sister is now sober, is trying to prove that and wants to care for her children. We also want to be able to see the children and we aren't being allowed. How is that fair when we pose no risk to those children? I know I couldn't take on twins, it would be impossible due to my young children and my home is not big enough.

Fair enough then.

I think this should be a lesson to alot of people though, social services are unfortunately not a supportive branch. They will find flaw in most loving parents and build on that.

Unfortunately ive heard so many horror stories and think they have a superior god complex which drives them, social services will never admit they are wrong or backtrack they will fight till the end to support whichever claims they have made.

@SuffolkUnicorn thank you xx still waiting to hear though, said she will call around 4pm, won't hold my breath though

Good luck, I hope it turns out to be good news. Sounds like the best place for her is with you just now x

Yep definitely this. She has barely been a social worker 2 minutes and I think she made her mind up a long time ago about what she was going to decide about the children.

There are people on drugs who have their children and a lot worse but then they try to make up for all their failures by taking children away from other families.

I feel that even before I started my assessment they weren't going to give me a chance.

@nopenotplaying thank you so much, that makes me feel a lot better knowing at least somebody thinks that xx

Good luck OP, I hope it goes well for you today and your sister and your niece and nephews. 💐you sound very supportive.

Hope all goes well. At nine the child is old enough to voice her own opinion so I hope she isn't afraid of the social workers and will speak up.

If your sister had the children voluntarily placed in foster care, it would have been under Section 20. This means she can withdraw her consent at any point and the children would be returned to her. The only way SS could keep the children in care against her wishes is if they are subject to Care Orders, which would only happen if there were significant concerns about her ability to care for them, and it would involve an application being made to court, the children being appointed a Guardian and solicitor who would independently scrutinise the application, and a judge agreeing that separation from their mum is necessary to safeguard them.

Has this all happened? If so, what was the basis of SS application (as in, what were they so concerned about that they needed to apply for Care Orders in the first place)?

It's not all about you, it is about what is best for thr children, you are coming across as this agenda against you thing you think is happening is more important than anything else