Just read the bloody uniform policy!!!

[flingoringo]

I've just read an article about a school in Gateshead where lots of kids were sent home or out in isolation on day one of term because they were wearing the wrong shoes. The offending shoes seem to be mainly a Vivienne Westwood ballet flat (with a big silver VW emblem on the front) and a Nike walking boots. Lots of kids wearing the same, from yr7 to yr11.
Parents are up in arms, obviously. One mentions the CoL crisis so the need to scrimp and save to spend A HUNDRED QUID on the Nike shoes. One mum said her yr7 daughter won't be going back she's finding her a new school.

The school (taken over by an academy in 2019) says the policy is clear, plain black shoes with no logos. That they have done their best to help yr6 parents understand what was to be expected once on yr7.

Now I don't necessarily agree with schools being overly strict with uniform policy. But I do accept that I have to agree to follow the rules at the schools that I chose to send my kids to and if we chose not to then of course they'll be consequences.

AIBU to think it's it's completely ridiculous that this happens every bloody year?!

we shouldn't passively accept any capricious rule with our brain switched off just because someone imposed it as a rule
I agree and think some things should be challenged via the appropriate channels.

But also I think for people need to balance that with a little bit of common sense and not buy their children items that are quite obviously outside the uniform policy on many levels.

One thing I notice a lot from people who defend ignoring any simple rule they don't like is that "X doesn't matter". If "X doesn't matter" then have the maturity to accept that not every organisation in life will do things your way and follow the simple rule.

If we're being honest the parents who spend £££ on designer ballet flats with huge logos on and go sad facing it to the press are not the parents who will reasonably raise a complaint or concern with school about something that is reasonable to challenge.

There's a report on X of an Academy where pupils were made to sit in silence for three hours in the school hall on the first day of term for the offence of not bringing blazers into school with them - yes, they weren't saying they had to wear them, they are saying the committed a heinous breach of discipline in not bringing in a piece of clothing which was blatantly wholly unsuitable for the weather. And for this it was worth depriving them of education.

I really, really struggle to understand the thought processes of anyone who thinks that is remotely sensible. Clearly it won't make the pupils respect school discipline, rather the reverse.

Schools that won't let pupils make their own decisions about taking off blazers and jumpers in hot weather really need to be reported for safeguarding breaches.

That sounds perilously like an illegal exclusion. That's not setting a very good example about complying with the rules, is it?

When you say "he will not hesitate to manage our parents and DC ..." am I right in thinking you meant "manage out"?

If so, that is illegal and utterly unprofessional. No child can be excluded on account of anything their parent does, and schools should be capable of educating and meeting the needs of all the children placed there. "Managing out" indicates that it is accepted that the child does not deserve exclusion, so the process generally involves unlawful exclusions and making the kid's life so miserable that the parents withdraw them. Ofsted are likely to be looking very closely at the retention rates in this school and asking some hard questions.

I really wouldn't want my child to be in such a badly run school as this.

a little off topic but regarding the bullying for cheap clothes etc
I find it less of a thing now and actually cheaper shops are deemed popular and “ fashionable you can get away with primark and SHEIN a lot easier now.

Most of those children managed out will have SEND and/or complicated family backgrounds. I can’t celebrate such awful ableism.

EHCPs can’t specify exactly what clothes need adjustments, because guess what happens? Schools use that to say they can’t meet the child’s needs. My dc can only tolerate joggers. She’s been out of school for 6 months. No one would be harmed by her wearing them to school. But mainstream says no, can’t meet that need. (Special schools are full and overflowing).

Ballet flats aren't practical but for my slim-footed child these were often the only sort that fitted and we would struggle to find anything that conformed to requirements.
As for the requirements for specific tartans on skirts, only trousers for boys, different necklines on shirts, blazers to be worn at all times, these are draconian, expensive, and impractical.

I've said to DC on multiple occasions that if staff are not wearing jackets indoors, children shouldn't be expected to. It's already an established fact that children struggle more to regulate body temperature, and we wouldn't take a dog out for a walk with a coat on when it's hot, so this feels like a rule for the sake of rules.

Ballet flats aren't practical but for my slim-footed child these were often the only sort that fitted and we would struggle to find anything that conformed to requirements.
As for the requirements for specific tartans on skirts, only trousers for boys, different necklines on shirts, blazers to be worn at all times, these are draconian, expensive, and impractical.

I've said to DC on multiple occasions that if staff are not wearing jackets indoors, children shouldn't be expected to. It's already an established fact that children struggle more to regulate body temperature, and we wouldn't take a dog out for a walk with a coat on when it's hot, so this feels like a rule for the sake of rules.

You should call for an annual review to sort out your child's education. A mainstream school claiming it is unable to make reasonable adjustments for disability is not only being ridiculous but is acting unlawfully and the local authority should override them and name them anyway - if that is the school you want. Mind you, you could very reasonably name any other school on the basis that this school is obviously run by bigots.

You need to challenge the school under the Equality Act 2010. No child with a disability needs to be sent to a specialist school because they find an aspect of the uniform difficult to manage - or for any other reason for which schools are required to make reasonable adjustment under the Act. There was a discussion upthread with parents of special needs children who said that arguing for these adjustments was difficult as schools require medical evidence of disability etc. In actual fact to be eligible for reasonable adjustment under the Act, a diagnosis isn’t required. The disability or health condition just needs to comply with the eligibility conditions under the Act. And ‘mainstream can’t meet that’ need is illegal where reasonable adjustment is possible.

A school I know of has banned skirts so all pupils have to wear trousers. They claimed it was to be inclusive of transgender children but I understand that it was actually because the teachers had had enough of telling girls that their skirts were too short. These days, making girls kneel so you can check that their skirt is knee length is quite a weird, problematic thing to do.

@CruCru Can you name the school? The policy will be on their website, so you won't be disclosing any confidential or personal information

It’s this one

In fairness, I’ve just had a look at the current uniform policy and it is not super prescriptive or hard to follow - just no skirts.

It's an insult to professional, hardworking, educated people everywhere.

The mere fact that someone has the time to go to every child and ask them to show them an item of clothing they're not going to wear!

Some people have terrible judgement. But the troubling thing is that they think they're in the right!

I used to have a deranged history teacher - she was always strict but the point came where we genuinely wondered if she had lost her mind. Towards the end of the year, she asked someone where some of the work we had done at the start of the year. The response was that it was at home, (presumably because it wasn't relevant to what we were learning months later.)

In fact, not a single person in the room had it with them - we had so much paper in our files that carrying around unnecessary work was ridiculous, and meant we'd be turning up with three ring binders for just one of our six lessons that day.

She went nuclear.

There are people on here who have said that children can wear boots / trainers and then change into shoes at school. Schools that are very prescriptive about uniform will almost certainly have rules about having to wear the correct uniform on entering and leaving the school.

@pam290358 i know. That said the law doesn’t always make it magically happen. My daughter has been out of school for 6 months. She is entitled to alternative education after 15days. I have badgered the LA, I have written to them, I have involved my MP and started a complaint with the ombudsman. Still radio silence.

Schools will jump on anything they can to deny they can meet the provisions of an EHCP. If the uniform bit is too specific they can just use that. We are already likely to end up at tribunal, just to get her an appropriate school place. She is a bright, able girl and is being failed completely.

This week alone I have spent at least 5 hours working on the draft EHCP and writing and calling various people. For parents of SEND it is a constant battle. You also learn quite quickly that something being illegal means nothing.

If schools cared one bit about kids from low income households this wouldn't happen.

My school used to have staff standing at the gates as people left at the end of the day. They'd inspect their uniform and tell them to do their ties, top buttons, shirts tucked in etc.

Three steps later the students had left the school grounds and immediately took their ties off.

Anyone with any intelligence or pragmatism would know before suggesting this that it would be a complete waste of time.

But people with intelligence and pragmatism typically don't rise up the ranks in a secondary school.

I saw a version of this earlier but I read thatvthe regulation skirts were £40!

It's shocking. But you'll find plenty of people who'll tell you "its the rulez...."

For the full story:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/holderness-academy-child-isolation-skirt-b2411423.html

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/school-under-fire-putting-child-27711558

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/angry-parents-hit-out-uniform-8738406

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

It is impossible to convince most Brits that research is clear on the lack of direct link between uniforms and behaviour / performance.

But even the nastiest, most old school supporter of uniforms should understand there is no reason to force families to buy overpriced items of clothing from a specific supplier, when cheaper generic versions are easily available.

The school's uniform policy is here: https://www.holderness.academy/page/?title=Uniform&pid=18

Usual waffle about pride, health and safety etc. I'd love to hear from whoever put it together how the cheaper Asda skirt negatively affected pride and health & safety.

A Department for Education Spokesperson said: “We have been absolutely clear that uniform should be affordable and costs for parents should be kept down by enabling them to choose high-street and unbranded options.
“Our statutory guidance is that cost and value for money for parents should be the most important consideration by schools when deciding how to source uniform and we expect schools to follow this.”

Yet schools are blatantly ignoring this with constant logo uniforms from their own suppliers which they take a percentage from. How does this prevent bullying, the schools are the bullies here

ParentOfOne That is awful. Apart from the cost (which is important), what if a child is a bit of a funny size and the “standard” school shop uniform doesn’t fit? I remember a thread (from a while ago) where a poster had a daughter with a tiny waist and wide hips / bum and couldn’t find a school skirt that satisfied the school requirements.

I've just seen this photo on the Hampshire county council website and wondered why so many headteachers think a uniform like this isn't good enough for their school. Looks neat and tidy to me, but without being complicated (and expensive).

I wonder if girls have the option of trousers as well? DD was at a non uniform school and only ever wore jeans or shorts - no way would have she and her friends worn a skirt or dress.