Just read the bloody uniform policy!!!

[flingoringo]

I've just read an article about a school in Gateshead where lots of kids were sent home or out in isolation on day one of term because they were wearing the wrong shoes. The offending shoes seem to be mainly a Vivienne Westwood ballet flat (with a big silver VW emblem on the front) and a Nike walking boots. Lots of kids wearing the same, from yr7 to yr11.
Parents are up in arms, obviously. One mentions the CoL crisis so the need to scrimp and save to spend A HUNDRED QUID on the Nike shoes. One mum said her yr7 daughter won't be going back she's finding her a new school.

The school (taken over by an academy in 2019) says the policy is clear, plain black shoes with no logos. That they have done their best to help yr6 parents understand what was to be expected once on yr7.

Now I don't necessarily agree with schools being overly strict with uniform policy. But I do accept that I have to agree to follow the rules at the schools that I chose to send my kids to and if we chose not to then of course they'll be consequences.

AIBU to think it's it's completely ridiculous that this happens every bloody year?!

These ones aren't ... the VW ones, I assume these here, cost £100 and are made from .... rubber!! Lovely sweaty feet.

Ballet pumps are fairly rubbish shoes and I despair of seeing really little girls in primary playgrounds wearing them. You can't run in them, climb on playground equipment and they let too much rain/puddles in! They generally don't support the foot well and sometimes the foot ends up clenched because that's the only way to keep them on.

But this isn't about shite and inappropriate shoes, this is about no logos and trying to cut down on ostentatious competition. God those things are UGLY, too!
https://www.sportsdirect.com/vivienne-westwood-x-melissa-space-love-23-ballet-pumps-234109?cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=17597583573&cq_term=&cq_plac=&cq_net=g&cq_plt=gp&cq_con=139404206618&cq_med=pla&cq_pos=&gclid=CjwKCAjwjOunBhB4EiwA94JWsMhoRCFuo9_wdCPqLAZVy9TmXOLpwYuZPOeUED55rNJmDbCOHaEnpRoCpTwQAvD_BwE#colcode=23410903

The fact that there are schools out there, who think they can set rules which say no dental retainers (even if not legally enforceable), shows how power mad some school head teachers have become.
Personal preference of a headteacher should never be the primary criteria for rule making!

Seriously? That is a school senior leadership team gone mad!

(also how do they know, don't retainers sit at the back?)

What i think is ridiculous is parents that can't read a policy and adhere to it at a school they have chosen for their kids

Parents do not choose a school. They are allocated one.

And policies change, often when there is a new headteacher.

No, it's directly comparable. You seem to think the fact that a rule exists means it should never be challenged, and anyone who does so must be "entitled". The fight for the vote is just one of hundreds if not thousands of examples of changes for the better in our society that have come about as a result of the actions of people who don't take that view.

It really is weird and incredibly old-fashioned that so many people just accept something as illogical as compulsory school uniform in the UK. The arguments that supporters put forward for it bear distinct echoes of the arguments put forward in favour of corporal punishment in the past. Let's hope it goes the same way, and soon.

@LadyBird1973
@enchantedsquirrelwood
they are referring to retainers for piercings.

PP have said the school was terrible and is being improved. It looks like they are only suddenly enforcing the uniform policy which is why parents are caught out

Okay, that better than objecting to dental ones. But really what harm is there in a piercing retainers? It doesn't affect safety or ability to learn.

You clearly havent read the thread. Uniforms help children with poorer parents cope amongst kids who wear fashion labels daily. As a kid who had struggling parents I knew first hand the benefit of uniforms. You think the police, fire service, army, nurses etc are battling to wear fashion items? Apart from anything else fashion is one of the major industries causing damage to the planet. A uniform isnt replaced in the way fashion outfits are. Let kids learn that some rules have a good reason even if their parents dont get it.

Frankly your reply shows a complete lack of awareness. For you its all about ‘your’ freedom. Give a thought to the good reasons for uniforms.

My DD's school uniform includes a kilt style skirt which can only be bought from the school and only comes in two lengths. They then joined an MAT and a new rule came in saying that skirts cannot be shorter than a certain length. All well and good, but this meant that any girl taller than about 5'8 was breaking the rules even if wearing the longest length skirt.
They also had a blouse with a logo that was so badly cut that it gaped at the bust for anyone who had gone through puberty. So as well as compulsory blazers, the girls had to keep their pullovers on for the whole year!

There is no “good” reason for dictatorial school uniform policies. Not one.

There is no “good” reason for dictatorial school uniform policies. Not one.

^ protect kids from poorer backgrounds being bullied....by making parents pay £££ for logo uniforms. My sons primary school uniform all bought from Lidl special buy cost less than £40. If you could buy high school uniform in those price brackets I'd believe them, the school generates funds from sales of suppliers.

Can state schools in England legally refuse to educate pupils if they aren't wearing the "desirable" clothes? I find this preposterous! I thought the state had an obligation in law to provide education for everyone? Can anyone explain this to me?

The school is correct on this one and the parents are either thick or just think their little twerp needs ballet flats or £100 Nike Air Max. The cost of living crisis might mean you would avoid Nike's .... but hey ho it's the dumb and dumber ones out in force again.

It's not about uniforms per se, it's about stupid uniform policies.

Is it really so hard for people to grasp the nuance here?

Uniforms are fine in principle.

Ridiculous uniform policies which are expensive and over restrictive are not.

And forcing someone to wear a blazer and a tie in 30 degree weather never protected anyone from bullying.

I think it depends whether they are run by the local authority - in which case there is some accountability, or whether they are academies, in which case they seem to be able to do what they like and nobody appears to have any powers to stop them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12488189/Furious-parents-blast-schools-sending-home-pupils-wearing-unsuitable-footwear-including-Vivienne-Westwood-pumps-Nike-walking-boots.html

These stories run each year with the thicko parents usually shown with enraged or dopey faces and the dear children often showing off said shoes... neither appear to be able to read the uniform list though.

I am in favour of uniform - the safeguarding it provides is enough reason.

But it needs to be practical, comfortable and affordable.

I don't agree with embroidered trousers and shirts. I don't agree with needing three separate pairs of specialist trainers for PE, like my old school used to demand. I think blazers always look terrible.

A shirt, a jumper, trousers and an iron-on badge for the jumper will do the trick. And probably black shoes.

Drop the nonsense about hair length, no stud earrings, socks of a particular length and colour, backpacks, hairbands, bobbles, glasses, pencil cases, lunchboxes and whatever else they can intefere in.

Since lockdown everyoen dresses casually in the office and I hate never knowing what to wear. Uniforms make things much easier.

I really think some people on this thread would do well to consider what happens when headteachers and teachers are not in charge. You end up with poor behaviour, poor teaching and poor outcomes for students.

The head at the DC’s school is a strong (some may say dictatorial) character and what he says goes. He will not hesitate to manage our parents and DC he believes are not conducive to the success of the school.

Not coincidentally, the school has excellent behaviour and great results.

You absolutely can and should.
The point is not that we shouldn't follow the rules.
It's that we shouldn't passively accept any capricious rule with our brain switched off just because someone imposed it as a rule.

In the past there were rules to justify all kinds of things which are now seen as unacceptable atrocities: rules to prevent women from voting, to consider black people as cattle and not humans, etc.

I think parents would buy the same shoes if they were unbranded. There’s a lack of choice for comfortable and hard wearing shoes that fit the policy

@FishyTree "Not coincidentally, the school has excellent behaviour and great results." The Sutton trust is adamant that there is no conclusive evidence of a link between uniforms and school performance. You can easily search their website for details.

@Solonge "Give a thought to the good reasons for uniforms"
There are good reasons to have a reasonable dress code, appropriate for the weather conditions, which doesn't require buying items from one supplier only.

There are no good reasons to buy items from one supplier only, to have a specific logo, or to prevent the logo from being applied to generic items with patches etc.

There are no good reasons to ignore the Sutton Trust conclusions of no clear evidence of a link between uniforms and behaviour and performance.

There are no good reasons to ignore that, all too often, a new head changes uniform policy because they want to be seen doing something, not because a different uniform will change anything.

There are no good reasons to force a uniform code which is too hot in the summer or too cold in the winter. There was a school which confiscated a heavier winter coat - worn after the kid had got sick and the GP advised he needed a heavier coat https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/jesmond-park-academys-uniform-policy-26016890
How would you like a job in which you can only wear short sleeves when the Supreme Boss so decrees?

There are no good reasons for daily inspections checking things like the right shade of grey or the exact length in mm of a skirt.

There are no good reasons to apply punishments which are not proportionate. A child wore ballerinas, which were clearly forbidden? Send her home; give her a 30-minute detention. But giving her smaller shoes which then give her blisters, or keeping her in detention for the whole day, is wrong, inhumane and counter-productive.

There are no good reasons to ignore we must safeguard children against the risk of repressed, unhinged individuals having a power trip and getting off on enforcing capricious, unjustified rules with disproportionate punishments.

If you disagree, @Solonge , can I ask you why?

My son went to a school with a strict headteacher, strict uniform policy and good results.

However, there was no requirement to wear a blazer and no nonsense about not being allowed to take a jumper off on a hot day.

Funnily enough, it worked fine, and the teachers and SMT were in control.

we shouldn't passively accept any capricious rule with our brain switched off just because someone imposed it as a rule

totally agree