Just read the bloody uniform policy!!!

[flingoringo]

I've just read an article about a school in Gateshead where lots of kids were sent home or out in isolation on day one of term because they were wearing the wrong shoes. The offending shoes seem to be mainly a Vivienne Westwood ballet flat (with a big silver VW emblem on the front) and a Nike walking boots. Lots of kids wearing the same, from yr7 to yr11.
Parents are up in arms, obviously. One mentions the CoL crisis so the need to scrimp and save to spend A HUNDRED QUID on the Nike shoes. One mum said her yr7 daughter won't be going back she's finding her a new school.

The school (taken over by an academy in 2019) says the policy is clear, plain black shoes with no logos. That they have done their best to help yr6 parents understand what was to be expected once on yr7.

Now I don't necessarily agree with schools being overly strict with uniform policy. But I do accept that I have to agree to follow the rules at the schools that I chose to send my kids to and if we chose not to then of course they'll be consequences.

AIBU to think it's it's completely ridiculous that this happens every bloody year?!

You were never bullied for having the wrong clothes were you

It's application time for our area for starting secondary next year.

My 'choices'
1st school: 30 minute walk away. Uniform policy is logo blazer &logo pe shorts from just one shop in town.

2nd school: 55 minute walk away. Uniform policy is logo blazer & Logo Skirt & logo pe shorts from just one shop in town.

3rd School: 58 minute walk away. Uniform policy is logo blazer & logo pe shorts from just one shop in town.

4th school: 1hr 5minute walk away. Uniform policy is logo blazer & logo pe shorts & logo pe shirt from just one shop in town.

5th school: 1hr 15minute walk away. Uniform policy is logo blazer &logo pe shorts from just one shop in town.

6th School: 1hr 24minute walk away. Uniform policy is logo blazer from just one shop in town.

It doesn't feel like a choice to me. It feels like someone I don't know will.decide which school my.kid with be made to go to and whatever I or she thinks is tough shit. So whether I agree with the schools policies or not is hard mouldy cheese and if I want to bitch about it, do so on FB Local groups because no fucker else will give a shiny shit, certainly not anyone that could do anything about it.

"choice" go where someone else says, follow rules someone else sets or fuck off.

I've been a teacher for 27 years. Uniform does not stop bullying. In the absence of bullying over own clothes, bullies will target kids for not having cool enough trainers, skirt length, bag, jewellery, phone, being a nerd, their weight, the way they talk... etc etc.

European schools have no uniform. As far as I'm aware, this doesn't make them have more of a bullying problem than UK schools.

European culture is different and the emphasis on clothes different

As is demonstrated clearly where we have people prioritising clothing choices over education.

I totally agree. I would have been having words with the head of year and writing to the governors if my child was affected.

uniform policies are discriminatory and ableist so it’s hard to find any sympathy for schools who seek to enforce them. Admittedly designer shoes aren’t really an example of uniform unfairness, but a school that cares about a logo probably also isn’t making sure that students with additional needs have their clothing needs met.
I think you're being a little unfair there on the whole (though there are some schools that go too far in my opinion).

A school that cares about a (usually loud) minority refusing to follow simple instructions is likely to be wanting a calm environment where students can learn, rather than a chaotic environment where the culture is set by the gobby students and parents who don't value education.

It's not about school caring about a VW logo or any other logo, it's about them setting a culture where students are safe to learn and not where everyone is running around panicking because little Whatsherface is shouting about how she wouldn't dare wear school shoes and her mother is going to tell the world on Facebook that the school are awful for not letting Whatsherface stamp her feet and wear her silly designer shoes.

Every school I've worked in, all with different types of uniform and non-uniform, have had adaptions and adjustments for those pupils who need it.

I can’t see that the culture is that different. I’ve only seen kids going to school in Holland, Belgium and Spain and it’s hard to believe they have any sort of dress code either.

If British people are prioritising clothing choices over education, it’s because they have so little choice. If the kids are wearing the rest of the uniform but the wrong black shoes they’re not doing much prioritising either.

Precisely!

You do know clothes are not the only things bullies will target right?

That’s part of the point of a uniform. It allows the kids to rebel a bit and ‘get away with it’ by wearing compliant but not the usual uniform. That way they aren’t challenging things that actually matter.

It really isn’t hard is it, there are clear details on what is and isn’t acceptable in the school, everyone is issued it. In many ways I feel sorry for the kids as they’ve probably been shopping with their parents and their parents have said “they’ll do, it’s close enough, no one will notice” even though they have the list in front of them. Then it’s the kids who get the punishment. The reality is the parents should stand up to their kids wants and desires and say no you can’t wear those they don’t meet the policy.

I think it’s ridiculous how every year , despite knowing the rules about the school uniform, parents choose to send their children in things that don’t conform to it . If you go to a school , you agree to their rules . This school seems to have a very reasonable rule not to have logos on shoes . And the schools is totally right to adhere to the rules otherwise there is really not long having any . If the parent doesn’t like the rules then they are free to change schools, otherwise just follow them.

Apologies, my mistake.

It does technically have a uniform (I knew I had seen it in Stevensons), but apparently “it is only worn on formal occasions” … hence in reality, no uniform on a day to day basis.

I agree with uniforms but I don't see the point in the long lists of very specific rules. The focus should be on being presentable but comfortable.

DC's school say they're preparing the pupils for workwear- I know very few people who wear blazers/ suit jackets and ties for work- even teachers, ironically! I also don't know of any job that can insist that you buy your blazer or your skirt from one specific retailer only, with ridiculous prices and poor quality! Then there's the PE kit with a small coloured logo, of course you have to buy the correct colour for their 'team' which means it's far harder to pass on/ sell/ hand down to siblings.

Maybe you would prefer a no uniform policy? It gets very expensive and competitive. Rules in school are to teach kids that all through life there are rules you have to abide by. Parents are pathetic now they back their kids up when they break school uniform policy.

I haven’t RTFT but although I do agree with a school’s uniform policy it’s a bit tricky with shoes. You need to find something that is durable and fits with the rules. My daughter has just gone into Yr11 and has the Vivienne Westwood ballet flats. I know they are expensive, I was shocked at the price, but this will be her second school year of wear out of them. She asked for them for Yr10 and I initially refused, mainly due to the fact they are what I would have called ‘jelly’ shoes. I bought her another type of shoe, they wore out, replaced and wore out again. I relented and got the VW ones. Like I said, now on the second year and so I think they can receive a 👍🏼 for wear and tear and have proved themselves economical in the long run.

YANBU

Stupid referencing CoL while buying £100 trainers 🙄

I know the school in the news today. But for our house move my daughter would have gone there. It’s relatively recently become part of a local academy group after a challenging situation and not great ofsted. They had high staff turnover, but great behaviour, etc etc.

The school that’s the ‘top’ of the chain is known for its good outcomes. It gets these , as far as I could see from my research, by applying consistent policy across the board. From behaviour to uniform to homework completion.

my friends who have kids going there seem happy enough and are really pleased that the new system is trying to improve things for all pupils allocated there.

Consistency and standards to meet are good for kids and understanding where the boundaries lie is a good lesson to learn

It absolutely is not to level the playing field. A lot of our local secondary schools stipulate leather shoes, so that lets out cheaper shoe shops as they have synthetic uppers. The cheapest leather shoes I have seen are at least £10 - £15 more expensive than the cheaper similar looking alternative.

The specific blazer skirt or pinafore from a single specified uniform shop costing much more than a generic plain coloured alternative. The school back pack and coat, compulsory of course and neither being suitable for purpose. The bag being too small and the coat too thin.

Also, whilst on paper an EHCP must be honoured lots find no leeway is given for sensory or any other issues and are told their child cannot be accommodated if they cannot adhere to full uniform policy.

I think the school is in the right, because those parents who bought this footwear aren’t truly impacted by CoL and it’s levelling to have plain shoes when many won’t be able to afford designer labels.

Only someone seriously misguided would be choosing designer school schools over buying food and keeping on top of household bills.

Jesus, some posters are thick!As a parent you don't agree to the school uniform rules because there's literally no choice in many areas. There are no non uniform schools! And the law states you have to educate your child - the vast majority aren't capable of home education, either because they aren't qualified to teach their children to a high enough standard or because they are at work.

It's really not unreasonable to expect rules to be proportionate and fair and based on sensible reasoning.

Despite the lack of choice for parents, the vast majority do support their schools and don't want to be arguing with teachers over unimportant details. I doubt the majority of teachers care whether shoes have a logo or a child's hair is an unnatural colour. They probably care far more about attitude in class and whether kids are working well.

Our example of this is stretchy material skirts. 90 girls in isolation day 1 and only 2 years were on site. I have no problem with uniform, however they want tailored skirts, which I have never found one that fits my daughters shape. The smaller sizes I would have to buy would be too short. Even the school finally admitted the issue when they had her trying on all the school stock in years 8,9 and 10. I think there needs to be some thought process behind the policies.

It frustrates me this whole thing. Those VW pumps seem to be the shoe of choice at my DDs secondary school and they haven’t been banned. But they’re awful shoes and I can’t understand why they would wear them. The other popular one in our school is a Zaxy ballet pump with huge bow. Seriously awful too. I’ve seen the kids wearing them come the winter and they’re not practical and pretty worn out. My kids both went against those and one has worn brogues until this year where she chose DMs and the other has chosen brogues. I also notice that school only allows leather that can be polished. My DD has picked patent brogues. For her they will last longer than regular leather. One of my kids has to wear in orthotic insole so anything ballet pump wouldn’t work and neither can keep slip on shoes on their feet.

All these parents kicking off have been told prior to this and it’s the parents choosing to ignore the uniform policy that has caused their child to be sent home or isolated. Why do these parents think the rules don’t apply to their child?? And when they say little Lottie won’t wear a brogue then you wonder who is in charge in their house.

Where I work we have a dress code. It includes suitable footwear that has to be substantial for health and safety. Adult work places are less concerned about brands as adults don’t tend to get bullied about wearing cheap unbranded clothes. Although I read a recent post about the OP working in a law firm and being expected to spend hundreds on tailored clothing. Many work places have a uniform with an expectation that you wear it and don’t rebel. Think many retail places, nhs. I worked in Woolworths many years ago and we were given a specific skirt for women (not allowed trouser then) and we had to wear a specific colour of tights with the skirt. Yes there are places of work without strict policies around clothes but as an adult you get to choose where to work most of the time. Parents choose the school for their child and this should mean they agree to follow the rules. Exceptions can often be made for students with additional needs but the general population should be able to follow a rule.

As someone who was never allowed branded clothes as a child the uniform at school meant that I didn’t stick out as much. I did in other respects as I didn’t abuse the no makeup rule that may girls went against with their orange faces!! Don’t think branded shoes were an issue back then as ‘school shoes’ were just that and weren’t really available in brands. Trainers not being allowed as part of main uniform helped. I hated PE though as my unbranded trainers did stand out compared to the brands of the 90s.

Part of the school uniform policies is about making a level playing field for the pupils where the money spent on their uniform shouldn’t be the focus.

I think the cheaper supermarket non leather versions would probably pass as they look like leather and are plain. And as long as they aren’t a ballet shoe for example if those are banned then a substantial looking cheaper alternative would pass. However, from experience these work out more expensive in the long run. My DD grew out of her Clarks shoes by Easter so rather than buying new Clark’s ones to be outgrown again by summer we went to shoezone. They were falling apart within ha couple of weeks. Tried another style from same shop and also fell apart (well daughter picked off the ‘patent leather’ and they looked awful. I ended up sending her in trainers for the last few weeks - most of her class were already in trainers so I figured I had some ammunition if she was picked on for wearing them. No one said anything though.

I also disagree with the places that have one style of branded skirt for the girls. Plain skirts that can be sourced anywhere are more sensible and allow for varying body shapes.

Our secondary has a fairly strict policy on paper but it’s frustrating that many get away with not following it and and then when my child turns up on a one off with something out of place she gets told off. For example leggings are not allowed. I’d never send them in leggings anyway. But I’ve seen comments on the parent groups I’m in saying ‘I’m just sending her on leggings as she won’t wear anything else!’. Well no. Unless there’s an additional need - which out school is happy to adapt the uniform for in genuine cases - you don’t buy your child leggings instead of proper trousers especially not ones where you can see their knickers through. Then the current complaint amongst parents which I do support is the boys not being able to wear tailored shorts. They must wear trousers. But the girls can wear skirts that basically show their bum cheeks (despite the uniform policy saying knee length). In this heat the boys should be allowed properly shorts. At least our girls aren’t forced into tights only and can wear socks!! Permission to remove jumpers from the teacher must be sought.

The school has relaxed the number of logo items which are compulsory. The main sweatshirt is now the only thing!! When my eldest started they had to have a logo PE top and Logo jumper for PE but now it just has to be the right colour with logo optional. No blazers in sight thank goodness!!

I agree. But also the overly strict adherance to insisting the children wear full layers of uniform (eg shirt, tie and blazer) during a heatwave ! How a child hasnt passed out yet I do not know.