Just read the bloody uniform policy!!!

[flingoringo]

I've just read an article about a school in Gateshead where lots of kids were sent home or out in isolation on day one of term because they were wearing the wrong shoes. The offending shoes seem to be mainly a Vivienne Westwood ballet flat (with a big silver VW emblem on the front) and a Nike walking boots. Lots of kids wearing the same, from yr7 to yr11.
Parents are up in arms, obviously. One mentions the CoL crisis so the need to scrimp and save to spend A HUNDRED QUID on the Nike shoes. One mum said her yr7 daughter won't be going back she's finding her a new school.

The school (taken over by an academy in 2019) says the policy is clear, plain black shoes with no logos. That they have done their best to help yr6 parents understand what was to be expected once on yr7.

Now I don't necessarily agree with schools being overly strict with uniform policy. But I do accept that I have to agree to follow the rules at the schools that I chose to send my kids to and if we chose not to then of course they'll be consequences.

AIBU to think it's it's completely ridiculous that this happens every bloody year?!

No sorry, it’s ridiculous. Apart from some professions where certain clothes need to be worn for safety (eg firefighter), even adults with uniforms are allowed to take their jacket off if they want to!!!

Teachers - and their unions - should refuse to have anything to do with enforcing uniform. It's not teaching, or safeguarding, or anything that should be part of their job after all.

And parents should unite in the face of the ludicrousness of rules imposed by weak school leaders who have their priorities out of whack, and demand for simple, basic, affordable, comfortable and inclusive uniforms/dress codes.

THIS.

I think that is disgraceful. I feel so sorry for those Year 7s, their first experience of their new school is being made to sit for hours in hot classrooms in totally impractical blazers. If teachers can't establish authority without letting them take off their blazers, they should not be in the job. In fact, any teacher with an ounce of self-respect is surely telling them to take them off.

You still haven't explained why you think it's wrong for people to exercise their right to vote against this rule in a poll.

If schools didn't have all these petty little rules, it would actually make teachers' working days so much better. Do any of them actually like having to spend time making a fuss about uniform instead of teaching? All those schools without uniforms seem to manage fine in terms of enforcing sensible rules.

"they are allowed to keep their jumpers off till October"
Fucking hell
So young people in that school are not allowed to ascertain for themselves their own body temperature?

Literally nothing about those kind of rules is for the pupil's benefit

At DT’s kindergarten children had a smock which they wore over their clothes so they could play with sand/water/paint etc and uniform stayed clean. They were all toilet trained by 3.

But you really don’t have to be prepared for the real world by wearing a uniform. It is perfectly possible for people to wear a uniform/uniforms in the workplace, which will be supplied, despite never having worn a uniform at school.

I suppose I am in the fortunate position that I can rock up to work in flip flops but as I drive there it wouldn’t be sensible! I think most people in the workplace can dress appropriately without any particular rules being imposed.

But why do children have to be prepared for those jobs by wearing uniform? How much practice do you need, FFS? As people keep pointing out, all over the world the majority of schools don't require uniforms. The countries concerned have very similar uniform rules for some adult occupations, and people seem to have no problem at all in dealing with those jobs, probably because there is actually a point to having uniform for those purposes.

It just isn't a valid argument for school uniforms.

That’s great. But a great many number of kids are not out of nappies by 3.

This was a pre-school, FFS. It won't have hundreds of pupils, and they presumably have systems for organising things like coats, gloves, spare clothes etc. I would also hope that, if they allowed the children to play outside, they put hats on them given the amount of heat that gets lost through the head. If nursery teachers can't deal with discipline for under 5s, they have a real problem.

For older children, the argument that you should send your child to a different school simply doesn't work. In many areas it simply isn't possible and people don't have that choice.

Teachers - and their unions - should refuse to have anything to do with enforcing uniform. It's not teaching, or safeguarding, or anything that should be part of their job after all.
I'm ambivalent about uniforms and go back and forward on the issue, but the idea that not following a school policy has no effect on teaching is nonsense.

If we're being really honest, the sort of students (and parents) who see a very clear uniform rule like not having giant logos plastered over the front of your shoe, and then go and spend over £100 buying a pair of shoes that are impractical, not in line with the uniform policy of being closed over the top, AND has a giant designer logo over the front are the students and parents who think any rule doesn't apply to them.

In my experience if it isn't obviously doing the opposite of uniform rules, it's doing whatever they like whenever they like and the parents will STILL be ready to complain and in the press with their sad faces on. It's why there's always some sob story about how they care about their child's education, but the mean nasty school doesn't and they slung the innocent child in isolation for asking a question/(insert other selective retelling of events that minimises their child's refusal to follow basic rules).

DDs school has a thing about nose piercings. I honestly don't understand why a very small, discreet stud is unacceptable on the nose, but earrings are okay. To me, it seems controlling for no good reason.
I'm largely a supporter of uniform - it's keeps things simple and saves arguments. But it's truly not adding anything to a child's education, to excessively control things like hair colour, shoes and jewellery which isn't a safety concern.

It would also be nice if uniform was designed with comfort and practicality in mind. Whoever thought that polyester blazers were a good clothing choice for sweaty teenagers?

No one who has an office job is allowed flip flops. Safety rules still exist. But we are allowed to wear comfortable shoes.

You can’t say that! No one would stop us wearing flip flops. I Wouldn’t for safety reasons but one of my colleagues wears Birkenstocks which are basically posh flip flops

I think the point is that the rules themselves are stupid. Sounds to me like having the rule there (which is stupid), is causing more trouble than if the rule wasn’t there. Just because it’s a school rule doesn’t make it right. And regardless of who chose the shoe or whatever, putting a kid in isolation because a shoe has a logo on it is inexcusable.

Yep, I'm remote now but I wore flip flops in multiple office roles before then.

I can say whatever I like matey ;)

And yes, at the companies i’ve worked at, if someone is caught wearing flip flops, they are told not to wear them again for safety reasons.

What I do wear to the office is converse, because they are a safe and comfortable shoe. No one cares because I get my work done and what i wear doesn’t impact the quality of my work or my behaviour.

I was at a school that was generally quite strict in terms of discipline. It had a uniform including a blazer, but the blazer was only for outdoor wear and in practice was rarely worn apart from a few days in the spring and autumn when it was too warm for coats but not warm enough to go without any sort of cover outdoors. Indoors we wore jumpers if we wanted to, and we had a free choice whether we wore long or short sleeved shirts. No teacher dictated when we put jumpers on or took them off, yet they managed to keep discipline perfectly easily. In fact, in the winter when the school's heating just didn't cope, we regularly wore cloaks indoors. In the sixth form we had no uniform and just had to wear smart casual. Despite all this I don't think any of my schoolmates had any issue fitting in at work in later life.

I do therefore wonder now why academies in particular make such an issue out of uniform when decades of experience demonstrates that it just isn't necessary or helpful.

nothing you have said has anything to do with my point, though

of course children - teens especially - will always push boundaries and flaunt rules, it's a rite of passage in a way; of course there are some parents who will be a PITA a anyway

It shouldn't be teachers' job to check the lengths of skirts or the brand of shoe or insist on wearing blazers in 27 degree heat - or adherence to other prescriptive codes. It's an utter waste of a specialist professional's time.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the expectation to be that blazers are worn at all times during the day. Obviously exceptions should be made if a particular classroom is absolutely boiling.

I’m guessing you’re one of those people who doesn’t run warm?

What is considered boiling in a classroom is subjective and that doesn’t even include the body heat coming off a classroom full of students. I wouldn’t be comfortable in a blazer even if it was 18 degrees C in every classroom if I had to wear it all day.

As other posters have pointed out even adults have the choice whether they can take their own blazer/cardigan off dependent on their own comfortability yet children and teenagers seemingly can’t make the choice about their own bodies.

I frequently wander around in bare feet in the office. Like you, no-one seems to be bothered.

I think the point is that the rules themselves are stupid. Sounds to me like having the rule there (which is stupid), is causing more trouble than if the rule wasn’t there. Just because it’s a school rule doesn’t make it right. And regardless of who chose the shoe or whatever, putting a kid in isolation because a shoe has a logo on it is inexcusable
If it wasn't a shoe rule they were whining about though, it would be another rule.
Organisations of 1000 people don't run based on "only follow the organisation expectations that you feel like".

Even if there was no uniform and there was a dress code, these are the students and parents who will still do what they want and moan about it because waaah I don't like the rule. It's stupid.

I have a lot of sympathy for parents who've tried to get practical school shoes that are within the uniform and have to deal with rubbish from school.

But I've no sympathy with parents who see a fairly simple rule, obviously do the opposite (because they've either got no ability to resist pester power or they haven't developed adult maturity yet) and moan about it. If they want their children to call the shots and only follow rules they like then they can home educate.

You say this is a simple rule, but I believe part of the origin of this thread and from many of the comments, it’s actually not very practical for all parents to follow. Realistically, many shoes have have brands on them. Traditional school shoes are also not always the best for foot development and so comfort should come first. This was advice I got from an NHS physio.

If when my child starts school, I can find shoes I deem suitable for my child to wear, that adhere to school rules, then great. If I can’t, tough tits for the school.

Especially with the general trend towards fewer unnecessary dress codes in work, and more work done remotely too. Kids at school today are much less likely to encounter a you have to wear X just because attitude than they would've been even a decade or two ago. Twenty or thirty years ago, there was at least more chance that this sort of clothing rule for its own sake was something they genuinely were likely to have to deal with at work.

A uniform policy is the policy that needs to be followed - it may be ridiculous like some other school rules are but it's the rules that need to be followed.

why do parents feel it's ok to bend them!