Just read the bloody uniform policy!!!

[flingoringo]

I've just read an article about a school in Gateshead where lots of kids were sent home or out in isolation on day one of term because they were wearing the wrong shoes. The offending shoes seem to be mainly a Vivienne Westwood ballet flat (with a big silver VW emblem on the front) and a Nike walking boots. Lots of kids wearing the same, from yr7 to yr11.
Parents are up in arms, obviously. One mentions the CoL crisis so the need to scrimp and save to spend A HUNDRED QUID on the Nike shoes. One mum said her yr7 daughter won't be going back she's finding her a new school.

The school (taken over by an academy in 2019) says the policy is clear, plain black shoes with no logos. That they have done their best to help yr6 parents understand what was to be expected once on yr7.

Now I don't necessarily agree with schools being overly strict with uniform policy. But I do accept that I have to agree to follow the rules at the schools that I chose to send my kids to and if we chose not to then of course they'll be consequences.

AIBU to think it's it's completely ridiculous that this happens every bloody year?!

Why are people spending 100s on Vivian Westwood shoez

Lucky you having lockers. It certainly isn't in any way guaranteed in schools nowadays. Kids count themselves lucky if the roofs aren't falling in.

@NotAMug

It is September in the U.K. DC are hardly going to die from having to wear a blazer. If a particular classroom is exceptionally warm, permission can be given to remove blazers but otherwise full uniform should be expected.

What exactly is the issue with teenagers having some self-expression? It’s not like you get the chance once you’re working (depending on the career). It’s not to ensure that kids who can’t afford more expensive items don’t stand out- that’s a cheeky argument if the uniform it’s self isn’t subsidised.

Obviously this is totally irrelevant. People don't have to work in supermarkets, they have to go to school, and they very frequently have no choice about which schools they go to. There is an obvious point to a uniform in a supermarket, i.e. so that people can tell who are customers and who are staff and can find staff members easily when they need to. There is no such point for school children. And supermarket uniforms are generally kept to the minimum necessary to achieve that - they don't impose rules about things like shoes, hairstyles and jewellery unless it's necessary for safety purposes.

I always comment on these threads to ask if anyone has any concrete data showing that very rigid uniform rules have proven to lead to less bullying and better results in England than in the majority of countries where they don't have uniform. Noone has ever produced anything! And yet the usual po faced replies defending England's mad rules continue.

I grew up not in the UK (mainland Europe). Didn't have a uniform and still managed to get a decent education and know how to dress as an adult! I now teach in Scotland where I, and the pupils I teach are allowed to wear trainers/DMs/comfy boots/sandals as appropriate, and funnily enough it doesn't affect their learning or my teaching! My own primary kids wear leggings or cycling shorts, plus a school polo shirt and trainers or boots depending on the weather. I'd find it totally ridiculous if the school sent them home for that and can't believe some posters are defending that kind of pathetic action by schools.

How do Americans and Canadians in their millions learn to wear appropriate clothing?

How do American and Canadian schools cope?

I don’t think American schools are the best comparison, considering the amount of mass killings that occur from students that have been bullied.

Uniform creates an equality among the students.

This girl game in wearing £100 Vera wang shoes.
If there was no uniform, she would obviously be in head to toe of designer clothes.
She has money so she’ll instantly be popular and less likely to be subject to bullying.

Another student who comes from a single parent background for example, cannot afford £100 shoes and head to toe in designer clothes.
It would be obvious straight away to all their peers that they do not have the money to buy designer clothes and therefore become the victim of bullying.

There is already an issue with bullying in schools.
There is no need to create more.

As a teacher my absolute worst days were non uniform days because it causes so much anxiety for so many students and the bullies have a field day saying nasty things and making them feel insecure.

YABU. They're school shoes and they shouldn't be sending kids home for it. I once wore my trainers for a good couple of years and got my mum to say I had a blister. I appreciate the VW shoes were flimsy but as for the price tag. My DD has gone to school in £70 doc martens because they're sturdy and practical and last like no other shoes she's ever had

Spain, France, USA? Most of Europe don't wear uniform. I don't think I'd describe any of them as " very socialist" although maybe more so than UK.
Actually, I don't know about Scotland and Wales- do most kids wear uniform there?
FWIW I've worked in schools with strict uniform, uniform-lite, and no uniform. It doesn't seem to affect the behaviour and learning, or school cohesion and identity. I can't see the point in it. It's just another rule to get het up about, let children wear what is comfortable and appropriate, and focus on things that do matter.

We expect these kids to grow into independent adults, yet schools don't allow children to decide for themselves whether they are too hot? Madness.

I get migraines if the office thermometer reaches 21C. If my school had made me keep a blazer on in this heat, I'd have spent more time in sick bay than in classes.

If only schools didn't allow any logos, including their own. It still annoys me that that I had to pay £15 for school shirts for DS for the privilege of having a stupid logo embroidered on the pocket, when I could buy exactly the same shirts without a logo for £6.

Fortunately, the school never noticed when I just sewed the same pockets onto the non-uniform shirts I bought every time after the first term.

I don't remember this much angst about uniform when I was at school. You wore it, whinged a little and got on with it.

When did children become such delicate little flowers that they need branded shoes etc in order to be happy at school.

And I strongly suspect that the people responding to that YouGov poll were not parents of current schoolchildren.

I get migraines if the office thermometer reaches 21C. If my school had made me keep a blazer on in this heat, I'd have spent more time in sick bay than in classes

Id have soaked my blouse in cold water and warn it sopping wet like i do with my tops in this shitty sauna of a flat.

Bet there is nothing in the rules that say the uniform has to be dry eh @FishyTree Why are you going by the fucking month instead of the actual temperature. Sadist much.

Uniform creates an equality among the students.

Does it bollocks. You can always tell the “poor” kids, blazers tatty due to being worn year on year or hand me downs, bobbly jumpers and tops because parents can’t afford to replace.

I grew up not in the UK (mainland Europe). Didn't have a uniform and still managed to get a decent education and know how to dress as an adult! I now teach in Scotland where I, and the pupils I teach are allowed to wear trainers/DMs/comfy boots/sandals as appropriate, and funnily enough it doesn't affect their learning or my teaching!

I assume you and these students have a range of clothes that can be worn on different days.

So many kids do not have this and only have a couple of outfits.
I used to have one change of clothes.

I know a student who recently ran away from school as it was non uniform day and he was in the same outfit as the past 2 days.
He only has 1 change of clothes.
Fortunately it was just 1 week of non uniform but if it was a regular thing then I’d dread to think how people like him would cope.

You can’t know what it’s like looking around and everyone your age is wearing branded clothes and has new outfits all of the time and you only have 1 or 2 changes of clothes.

Surely it’s not difficult to put yourself in the shoes of someone less fortunate and see how they may be affected in this situation.

It would be nice for schools to have the benefit of the doubt rather than this continual implication that they are all draconian prisons

Some are a bit draconian. My DD's nursery is on the same site as a secondary school, and a couple of winters ago when it was absolutely freezing and snowing they had a teacher at the gate making children take off their woolly hats as they entered school grounds. Fair enough they don't want hats inside, but it was less than 0 degrees and snowing and they were wearing perfectly reasonable woolly hats.

The teacher telling them to take them off was wearing a hat. I appreciate that teachers don't have to follow the same rules as pupils, but it seemed a bit mental that they had a teacher outside the gate telling pupils to take their hats off, yet the teacher obviously felt it was too cold to be without a hat.
I feel the same about schools that insist on pupils wearing blazers when the teachers can obviously feel that it's too hot for them to be wearing a jacket themselves.

My DD started reception this week and her school uniform states grey or green hair ties for long hair for regular uniform, but black ones for PE. Pointless.

Schools making parents spend money they havent got so the kids dont LOOK poor is nearer the mark

I don't remember this much angst about uniform when I was at school. You wore it, whinged a little and got on with it.

When did children become such delicate little flowers that they need branded shoes etc in order to be happy at school.

Exactly this!

It’s the parents I blame though for making their kids like this.

Why? Because they don't agree with you?

But it isn't real agreement if you didn't have a realistic choice, is it? It's not as if parents have a choice of non-uniform schools in most areas, nor is home schooling an available choice if you have to earn money to keep a roof over your head.

@Chippy4me

I don't think school uniform solves any of the problems you've mentioned (and your post is soooo condescending!). I work in one of the most deprived schools in my authority. I'm not sure uniform brings any real benefit. Also how weirdly Anglocentric of you to assume that a) I grew up wealthy with a range of outfits and b) to assume that mainland Europe has no poverty whatsoever and that's why we can all get away with no uniforms!

With your example about the pupil becoming distressed - really upsetting obviously, but do you not see that because uniform is so strict and rigid, non uniform days become a huge deal? Whereas when you don't have a uniform kids just generally wear the same clothes day in day out.

Do you have anything official to link uniform to less bullying, or to show that countries with no uniform have less poverty and more bullying? Or just your own anecdotes?

Uniform creates an equality among the students

I'm not actually against uniform generally, but I think this is bollocks.

If you went to a school with a uniform, did you really not know who was richer? Or more fashionable?
Within the bounds of the uniform there were trousers that were more stylish, shoes that were more expensive, blouses with a nicer cut. Then bags and coats weren't even covered by the uniform, but even if they had been, cheap coats without an obvious label (for example) are still easy to distinguish from expensive ones.
I always had sensible shoes, and trousers from BHS, and looked very different from people in fashionable shoes and trousers from topshop.

I'm not saying the parents in the OP are right btw, they should follow the uniform policy. But let's not pretend it makes kids equal.

No, it doesn't. Children know exactly who the "cool" kids are, or the ones with money, irrespective of what shoes they wear. How are you going to level the playing field with things like coats, phones, bags etc?

Refusing to send your child to a particular school isn't a criminal offence. What are you going to prosecute them for?