Page 2 | Is there a name for this sort of behaviour? Or am I the problem?

BopSd · 2023-09-06T13:56:04+00:00

I have a two year old with my ex partner. When I say I have tried hard over the last two years to be amicable, open, friendly and supportive of his relationship with DD, that is an understatement. I feel I have gone above and beyond to be caring to a man who essentially left me shortly after birth and didn’t support me in any way until DD was almost one. However, I accept that he may have felt I was part of the cause of the breakup. I don’t believe I was, but for argument’s sake let’s say we each were to blame. As ex is very intermittent with Dd, I have on occasion said that if he can’t be consistent then I am going to have to be transparent about that with her nursery because i am worried they will refer to her dad as if he is a constant presence and it will upset her. She is already confused that he is not always around. He can go weeks and weeks without being in touch. when I say this, he tells me I am threatening him and he can’t trust me… I don’t think the way I express it is unkind, it’s very factual, ‘dd notices you’re not around, are you intending to be consistent with her or will you largely be absent because I think people close to her should be aware?’ is he being a dick to say that is threatening? Or am I doing something wrong here? My head spins with this man and I feel I can never do right. Im open to being told im the issue though!

AnneWhittle · 06/09/2023 21:07

yes, they really do, of course they do when they are surrounded by models of 'a normal family' which is mummy, daddy, and children....there's a person she calls 'daddy' and yet he isn't really in her family is he

I agree with the grey rock approach, he is using your hopes that he might be a reasonable, if non resident father to manipulate you and in the process hurt your dd

I'd tell the nursery, and anyone who needs to know that you are a single parent and that her father only sees her occassionaly

SavBlancTonight · 06/09/2023 21:30

BopSd · 06/09/2023 20:15

@Autieangel i think I’m trying to push him to clarify what he actually wants so we all know where we stand. He’s so intermittent and up and down and it makes it hard for us all and now it’s affecting Dd I had had enough. I’ve probably gone about it all the wrong way but I have literally been asking him for months to be clear about what he actually wants. He won’t ever say or come to an arrangement.

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The problem is that men like this will not be more clear. They don't want to be. They like being able to drop in and out. They like being able to portray you as the bad guy I'd you don't facilitate this. They like pretending to be the victim when their child doesnt want to hang out with them

So this kind of thing is a threat, but an ineffective one. What you need to do is focus on your dds well being and just assume he won't be a stable reliable part of her life.

Anastasia666 · 06/09/2023 21:39

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 18:33

I think you will find that fathers day is irrelevant to many kids, and I find it hard to believe any child care setting "celebrates" it

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Actually nurseries do celebrate both Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. My one certainly does. We had events for both, but others could attend for a child if a parent couldn’t be there.

There was an afternoon tea that the children had helped make, and games etc. So they do celebrate these things. And I can see how confusing it would be to a child if the other children are all talking about their fathers, but they have little to say as he’s rarely there.

Jibo · 06/09/2023 22:21

Is he on the birth certificate? Cut him out. DD will soon forget him if you do it now - otherwise, she'll have another 15 years of hurt, disappointment, and rejection.

As for nursery, they are not being inclusive and should know better.

Original poster

BopSd · 06/09/2023 22:24

@Jibo yes I think I am at that point now. It’s been over two years of trying to understand what he wants while coping with his change in decisions last minute, his mixed messages, his silence then suddenly re appearing. All the while I’ve said nothing to keep the peace. Enough is enough. It’s so sad he can’t just be decent!

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Viviennemary · 06/09/2023 22:26

He doesnt sound a very great Dad. But your attitude isnt good either. Many children have grandparents and other relatives they don't see regularly. If you keep up this level of complaining and criticism he might disappear altogether.

Original poster

BopSd · 06/09/2023 22:27

@Viviennemary its the first time I’ve ever called him out on it.

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LightlySearedontheRealityGrill · 06/09/2023 22:31

I wouldn't tolerate that behaviour around my child unless I was forced to. Awful example for her of how a man who supposedly loves her should treat her. Agree with PP remove him from her life as much as possible. Move on, create a happy home and do absolutely nothing to facilitate him. And as for the supposed 'threats' of letting people know what kind of a person he is, don't bother warning him again. Actions only from now on.

LightlySearedontheRealityGrill · 06/09/2023 22:32

Viviennemary · 06/09/2023 22:26

He doesnt sound a very great Dad. But your attitude isnt good either. Many children have grandparents and other relatives they don't see regularly. If you keep up this level of complaining and criticism he might disappear altogether.

With some luck!

Pallisers · 06/09/2023 22:34

Viviennemary · 06/09/2023 22:26

He doesnt sound a very great Dad. But your attitude isnt good either. Many children have grandparents and other relatives they don't see regularly. If you keep up this level of complaining and criticism he might disappear altogether.

And that would be whose fault? His.

Nothing the OP can do will change how her ex behaves toward her child. She has tried to encourage the relationship. He has chosen to go weeks and weeks without seeing her. That's on him not OP. And if he finally flakes off well that is also on him, not OP.

I think Bertiebott's post is absolutely correct. Forget trying to get him to change OP, you need to stop expecting anything of him. If I were you I would probably mention something to nursery so they are aware of the family set-up. I also would make sure he couldn't collect her from nursery without permission from you.

Laughing at the poster who thinks a dad who flits in and out of a child's life is just like a window cleaner and the child should feel the same emotional impact. That's a new one.

NeunundneunzigHorseBallonz · 06/09/2023 22:34

Stop listening to him. Stop even discussing things with him.Tell the school. This won’t be the first time they’ve seen a Disney Dad.

underneaththeash · 06/09/2023 22:39

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 18:33

I think you will find that fathers day is irrelevant to many kids, and I find it hard to believe any child care setting "celebrates" it

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Eh? That has to be one of the most ridiculous ever on mumsnet.

@BopSd just ignore him. You've made enough effort.

and no that is not idiosyncratic.

Trusttheprocess1 · 07/09/2023 04:37

I think that it’s about managing your expectations, rather than hers. I imagine that you had an idea of what he is and the kind of family you would be, and that this is not at all what you hoped for. It is sadly though, what you have got and he will not change. Please don’t waste your time trying to get him to be something he is not. I did; I put photos up for my daughter, I sent him letters, phoned him and tried to make him see what he was doing and how much I wanted him to be a great dad. The truth is that he is a shitty dad and not the person I had hoped. You’ll save you and your child a great deal of stress and heartache if you recognise that now and just accept through gritted teeth, that this is it. He doesn’t deserve to be so significant to her, in the kindest possible way, don’t make her miss what she hasn’t got. I echo what PP have said; let nursery know what he is like so they can support you both. One day, far sooner than you think, she will be grown up enough to see him for what he is. You’ll be the sun and the moon to your LO and he’ll just be on the sidelines, exactly where he’s placed himself.

Movingandlooking · 07/09/2023 04:48

@Sidslaw why would she not ask for him. You have made some very odd comments. Ofcourse she will ask. She's nearly 3 not 6 months old. If anything as she gets older she will question it more and more. I know I did with a similar set up as ops child. Kids aren't stupid and do understand that certain people should be more close to her than others.

@BopSd I think next time just say it to nursery. If he wanted to be there more he would be. Someone like him isn't going to respond in the way you are hoping.

Sidslaw · 07/09/2023 05:45

BopSd · 06/09/2023 18:38

@Sidslaw I don’t think it was celebrated but cards were made with drawings in. Dd is nearly three and explained that they showed what they did with their dads 🤷🏼‍♀️

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But WHY would this upset her? It makes no sense at all. Nothing there to upset a child - she doesn't have much contact with her father, that is what she is used to, she probably doesn't see him as a significant care giver, this whole story makes no sense at all

It is like saying " The nursery children made pictures of woodpeckers, and my child is upset because the woodpecker in our garden doesn't come as often as the woodpecker in other people's gardens, should I warn the nursery not to mention it in case it upsets her" She will see a woodpecker when she sees a woodpecker and she will see the man she calls daddy when she sees the man she calls daddy - neither one is going to be considered a loss to her is she doesn't see them, they are just personalities that appear and disappear from her life, and she is used to that, and would not expect anything else

Autieangel · 07/09/2023 05:50

I would just say to dad that dd needs some consistency Ie once a week, once a month whatever it looks like. Don't mention nursery to him. But of course tell nursery what's happening

Original poster

BopSd · 07/09/2023 06:19

Sidslaw · 07/09/2023 05:45

But WHY would this upset her? It makes no sense at all. Nothing there to upset a child - she doesn't have much contact with her father, that is what she is used to, she probably doesn't see him as a significant care giver, this whole story makes no sense at all

It is like saying " The nursery children made pictures of woodpeckers, and my child is upset because the woodpecker in our garden doesn't come as often as the woodpecker in other people's gardens, should I warn the nursery not to mention it in case it upsets her" She will see a woodpecker when she sees a woodpecker and she will see the man she calls daddy when she sees the man she calls daddy - neither one is going to be considered a loss to her is she doesn't see them, they are just personalities that appear and disappear from her life, and she is used to that, and would not expect anything else

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@Sidslaw do you not have kids? The woodpecker analogy you use is exactly the sort of thing a child would latch onto.

OP posts:

Original poster

BopSd · 07/09/2023 06:22

Trusttheprocess1 · 07/09/2023 04:37

I think that it’s about managing your expectations, rather than hers. I imagine that you had an idea of what he is and the kind of family you would be, and that this is not at all what you hoped for. It is sadly though, what you have got and he will not change. Please don’t waste your time trying to get him to be something he is not. I did; I put photos up for my daughter, I sent him letters, phoned him and tried to make him see what he was doing and how much I wanted him to be a great dad. The truth is that he is a shitty dad and not the person I had hoped. You’ll save you and your child a great deal of stress and heartache if you recognise that now and just accept through gritted teeth, that this is it. He doesn’t deserve to be so significant to her, in the kindest possible way, don’t make her miss what she hasn’t got. I echo what PP have said; let nursery know what he is like so they can support you both. One day, far sooner than you think, she will be grown up enough to see him for what he is. You’ll be the sun and the moon to your LO and he’ll just be on the sidelines, exactly where he’s placed himself.

@Trusttheprocess1 i considered the photos etc too. It’s so hard isn’t it? I definitely never anticipated him to behave in this way towards her. It’s like the man I used to know has died, that’s how strange it’s been. I have often wondered if he’s just not well or something. Why can’t a grown man be clear about what he wants regarding his child arrangements? It baffles me.

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firstbabyworries · 07/09/2023 06:30

@BopSd just coming here in solidarity with you. I was your DD, still am, although now NC with my dad. At a very young age I was acutely aware that it was supposed to be different. When at nursery my friends would talk about their dads I just stood there and couldn't join in. It hurt, a lot.
Dont listen to others saying she's too young blah blah blah, you know your DD, she probably doesn't really understand it but may definitely feel that something if not right and may feel the pain of that

Original poster

BopSd · 07/09/2023 06:32

firstbabyworries · 07/09/2023 06:30

@BopSd just coming here in solidarity with you. I was your DD, still am, although now NC with my dad. At a very young age I was acutely aware that it was supposed to be different. When at nursery my friends would talk about their dads I just stood there and couldn't join in. It hurt, a lot.
Dont listen to others saying she's too young blah blah blah, you know your DD, she probably doesn't really understand it but may definitely feel that something if not right and may feel the pain of that

@firstbabyworries thanks and so sorry you went through that. Was your dad in and out all the time? I’m being told by family to cut him off now so she doesn’t have inconsistency as that will be better? I just don’t know.

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firstbabyworries · 07/09/2023 06:37

@BopSd he was inconsistent as I was no one on his side knew about me so he would only visit when he could lie his way out. I think it would have been better if he was never in my life, I would have not had any expectations then. I allowed myself to believe he would always show up when he said and unfortunately this was not true at all.
I don't know the answer and every situation is different. I do wish you luck though and hope you DD is ok

BertieBotts · 07/09/2023 07:03

You've done a very natural thing so please don't think I'm saying you're doing it wrong or anything. The way that you've tried to handle it so far is exactly the way that reasonable people would handle things. It's just that you're not dealing with a reasonable coparent.

I wouldn't cut him off actively, because IME that tends to make men like this dig their heels in and fight for their "rights", which can leave you in a tricky place if he ends up getting a court order. The court order means that you have to make the child available but there is no penalty for the father if they don't bother to show up, which they do quite frequently. It's then very upsetting for the child as you can't be vague and pretend he's not coming until you know 100% that he is. They know that they are in the daddy meeting place and are then distressed every time he doesn't show.

Just leave it up to him and he will either see her or not, but I think you minimise distress to the child this way. I understand that will seem confusing or wishy washy but you're playing a longer game.

BertieBotts · 07/09/2023 07:05

DS1 used to say "(mums partner) is like a mummy, but he's a man!" Because he didn't have a word equivalent to "daddy", his understanding of "daddy" was that man I sometimes go off with for the day.

Then later he would say "Leon has a Daddy, Annabel has a Daddy, but I have a (mums partner), he's like my daddy!"

Ponoka7 · 07/09/2023 07:15

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 15:21

But a two year old is not going to be in the slightest phased that her Dad isn't around, she isn't used to him being around, so him being intermittent is just normal life to her, and not upsetting in the slightest

It depends on the development of the two year old. Of course they start to ask about people. They get attached to toys and TV programmes etc at this age. They start to work out who family members are.
OP I agree with what has been said about you telling on him, rather than putting in boundaries. It is for you to protect your child in all ways. It is in her best interests to put conditions on seeing her. Don't let him rock up after weeks on not seeing her. It should be all or nothing. Girls build self esteem partly based on how male relatives treat her. He doesn't get to treat her as something to do when he is bored, can be bothered, or as an after thought. Is that how you want her to be treated by potential boyfriends? She deserves better.

Ponoka7 · 07/09/2023 07:17

"The court order means that you have to make the child available but there is no penalty for the father if they don't bother to show up, which they do quite frequently. "

That must vary around the country because I've known of Mums recently who have had contact conditions put in place which means the child doesn't get let down or contact stops.