AIBU to wonder at people experiencing natural consequences.

[RexWillKillYou]

do other people find it difficult to sympathize with people complaining when they experience Natural Consequences Stuff like:
you drank too much - hangover
you cheated on your spouse- your kids think you’re shit.
you live beyond your means- and you’re skint.
you refuse to go to engage with the diabetes clinic- and look what’s happened.

bad stuff happens to people (all of us) at some point without us doing anything. But we don’t have to give it a hand, and shut our eyes to a mess of our own making.

I think there is a lot less sympathy for people who get smoking related cancers nowadays. I do know a friend completely lost the rag at their parent who smoked after they got a lung cancer diagnosis. Her view was/is “How could you do this to us?” She was early twenties youngest sibling was 15 or 16.

I don’t know where the line is. I can muster up some sympathy for the smoking parent now because it must be shit to know that your children think so badly of you, and it is incontrovertibly your actions that have brought everyone to this point. (Because I am now a parent)

My dad died of lung cancer after years of smoking. I have sympathy for him as he got addicted quite young ( nobody thought it was harmful back in those days). But I also have a bit of anger since he went too soon.

I think I sit somewhere between your "it's all your fault, go get stuffed" approach and other posters' "who knows what's really happening here."

I have sympathy for the fact that these things can be be more complex than just - sort your diabetes, for example - but I also get frustrated by it when the consequences are so dire.

I think my sympathy probably slides up and down the scale depending on what I think is really happening and how many people are impacted. ExBIL is 100% the architect of his own downfall and on the one hand, I feel nothing but scorn for him. But weirdly, at the same time, I also feel sorry for him because I know that he genuinely doesn't understand why this is happening to him. He's too damaged and too stupid and too self absorbed to be able to do the work to figure it out and make changes. I find my ability to feel such completely different things about him at the same time very odd, but there it is.

Most people like to vent doesn't mean they are not taking accountability.

Eg. Most parents talk about how difficult parenting is doesn't mean they regret their kids or they should have had them. Just means they find some comfort in discussing their hardships

*shouldn't have

I disagree with your third line - it will often 'do people a favour' to look at what is behind their behaviour/actions. This doesn't absolve people of blame but helps them to address what is causing them to behave this way. If we don't look at root causes then it may be a lot harder to actually break patterns of behaviour.

I have sympathy for the fact that these things can be be more complex than just - sort your diabetes, for example - but I also get frustrated by it when the consequences are so dire.

When I had gestational diabetes, it was caught late (33 weeks) and I was struggling to get it under control. The consultant said to me on week 2 or 3 post diagnosis, "you need to manage this better - do you understand you're potentially harming your baby."

My mother had fallen extremely ill a month before and it had been a very stressful few weeks. Then, during my diabetes test my dad called to tell me that the recommendation was to turn off the machines keeping her alive and she died the morning I got my diagnosis. I had a raging cold, was suffering from anaemia and because my parents lived in another country and I couldn't fly, my DH had gone to her funeral while I stayed home with a toddler.

Thank god, the specialist nurse jumped in and defended me but I'll never stop being annoyed that I didn't say something to him or complain afterwards.

For me it's all about the context ... If you've been warned about something up front and you still do it (or repeat the same behaviour expecting a different outcome) and then complain loudly then I have no sympathy for you.

For example, if I've gone out for a night out and then am massively hungover the next day I might feel sorry for myself but I get over it ... If I'm meant to be going out with DD and then spend the whole day miserable then that is entirely on me because I knew my plans beforehand and so only have myself to blame for feeling miserable. If I then go on to do that for three weekends in a row and expect people to have sympathy for having to do activities whilst hungover then I would be totally unreasonable as I know the consequences and continue the same behaviour so can't complain when I get the same outcome.

It can also be frustrating to be on the outside and seeing someone make the same mistake/do the same action or behaviour over and over again and then act oblivious as to why people don't want to help after the 5th time of them not taking responsibility for their choices. For example I work in a pharmacy and see people come in repeatedly for emergency prescriptions because they have not ordered their repeat prescriptions in time or just let their (sometimes literally life saving) prescription run out and then make their failure to prepare our fault because we don't have the item in/need to order things etc ... The first time you can have sympathy because life happens to us all and even the best planner in the world can miss the odd thing but when it happens three months in a row or 6 months out of 10 then sympathy starts to run out as it's becoming an active choice.

I disagree with your third line - it will often 'do people a favour' to look at what is behind their behaviour/actions. This doesn't absolve people of blame but helps them to address what is causing them to behave this way. If we don't look at root causes then it may be a lot harder to actually break patterns of behaviour.

Up to a point! But I think we've gone a bit far down that line. Almost no-one nowadays blames themselves any more, even for really obvious things. One manifestation is the litigation culture. I remember reading on MN of a rowdy family in a pub restaurant who were asked to control their children (crashing into waiting staff, bothering other diners etc) but refused. A child collided with a waitress and got hot gravy spilled on him, so naturally the parent sued the pub!! I don't know what the outcome was, but I really hope they were told to sling their hook.

Also - the recent case of the young boy who got a small injury to his hand from a glue gun that he'd been expressly told NOT to touch by the poor teacher.

So many replies on this post reflect why no one seems to take personal responsibility any more and everything is always someone else's fault.

I disagree with your second line this time - we have a massive shortage of mental health care in this country, and there definitely are people who are self-medicating/self-harming/attempting to cope with all sorts of excessive behaviour, often involving consumption (be that of alcohol/drugs/spending money/controlled eating etc). They need help in dealing with this and not just to be told not to do something/be judged for their behaviour.
Regarding your specific examples......
I think the glue gun example is interesting. I am not 100% sure of the age of the child, but there often is a point in development where some children almost feel they have to do what they are being told not to, and the teacher should have been aware of this and made sure the glue gun was actually completely out of reach (instead of just saying not to touch).
Regarding the family in the restaurant, well that looks like learned behaviour to me - they don't seem to have been taught how to behave and they are passing that on to their children. Perhaps also a sense of entitlement too.

YANBU

My mum has been on the phone non stop because she spent A LOT of money on a man she’s just met and now he’s dumped her.

We told her not to do it many times but she still went ahead and did it and now wants sympathy and to borrow money.

My mum has form for things like this and I am starting to wonder if she does things just to try and get sympathy.

I do think some people bury their hand in the sand when it’s something they can’t face but when their is an easy solution to their problems then I have no sympathy.

There are also lots of threads on here which I struggle to have sympathy for.
I usually only have sympathy for the children who didn’t ask to be put in these situations.

Meanwhile other comments suggest no understanding that some people have different life experiences than us and that many complex factors can lie behind what might seem like a crazy choice to you or I?

It sounds like your poor mum doesn't value herself and is repeating the cycle of trying to find value in relationships, often over-committing too soon. :(

Possibly she does it to get sympathy, but it's far more likely that she doesn't have the capacity to see what is happening or to project the result.

I think that this is true of a lot of people for all kinds of reasons. Mental health, cognitive ability, neurological diversity, poor parenting, life experiences .... the list is endless.

I'm currently trying to teach DS, for example, that sometimes we have to take responsibility for things even if they're not our fault or if we made a mistake rather than doing things on purpose. It's a lesson he is very much struggling to learn.

Again, I repeat my comment....

I struggle with people who are stressed but constantly add more to their plate. Example: they find having 2 kids stressful (understandable) and moan about it a lot, but then have a 3rd. Then moan about how stretched they are with 3 kids, but then they go buy a puppy or something.

It's totally their choice but I just wonder why they don't give themselves a break if they are so stressed! 🤔 They run themselves into the ground.

Other things like alcoholism, addiction, debt etc are more complicated. I feel sorry for people struggling with these issues and they are normally a symptom for something else.

I don't feel like I'm an idiot if I'm hungover, I think I must've had a pretty good night :)

I agree. I'm in Ireland, 1 of the banks f*cked up recently and people were able to withdraw money that was not theirs. Some are now complaining the bank wants the money back or that the repayment terms are unfair 🙄

I have a lot of sympathy for some people experiencing it, but not much for others. It vastly depends on the situation, the person and how they are dealing with it themselves. We have all been idiots at one time or another, we can all be thoughtless and blind and hateful. It should not preclude anyone from sympathy if they can acknowledge that they’re at fault and work to change it.

As do I.....
(but let's stop that there because we can surely both see that's not really constructive).

Yeah, I read it often on here about men sticking their uncondomed dicks into women's vaginas then getting upset when they are expected to care for/ pay towards their child.

You sound very young @RexWillKillYou

Young or lacking in life experiences.

Or wrapped up in money and ignorance.

The trouble with this attitude about natural or foreseen consequences is that it's the same logic that leads to low rape convictions, the idea that the victim was partly to blame because she should have been able to foresee that if she went for an evening out dressed like that she'd be a target.

EhrelicheFrau
Regarding your specific examples......
I think the glue gun example is interesting. I am not 100% sure of the age of the child, but there often is a point in development where some children almost feel they have to do what they are being told not to, and the teacher should have been aware of this and made sure the glue gun was actually completely out of reach (instead of just saying not to touch).

I think what you're saying has huge (and detrimental) implications for education and society in general. If you really believe that no child should ever take responsibilty for their actions - where does that leave schools and teachers?

I ran a Forest School at one time and one of the tenets is to teach youngsters to take responsibility for their own and others' safety. They use tools, they learn to be safe around fire etc. I never had a single child injured or being silly but we were clear that if anyone was a danger in any way, we'd take them away from teh situation rather than stop the activity. So - judgement and consequences, really, and they got that.

I think the case of the glue gun has caused general panic (and I don't blame schools) and will mean that children will have to miss out on more advanced DT projects. The point (as I see it) isn't anything to do with what excuse the boy might have but that the injury in this case was SO minor. A parent with goodwill, who wanted to support the school and her child's education, would understand this and after an apology, explanation and reassurance, should have accepted that accidents do happen - and maybe gone home and had a word with her son!!

The 'it's never my fault' culture is pernicious and is damaging in all kinds of way. But then , I'm annoyed also that teachers in particular seem only too willing to take the blame for all of parents' and society's shortcomings.

Well I am actually quite old, and have enough experience to know that when I have made stupid decisions someone saying ‘What the hell are you doing, and what do you think is going to happen here?” would have been more service than the lazy there-theres afterwards.

Nowadays I know to value the people who know that sympathy can actually be massively misplaced, or is sometimes simply undeserved. I’m also old enough to know that there are some people in life who can only learn The Hard Way. We know it, they know it, and they welcome neither my sympathy nor your patronising pity.

If we are trading insults : you come across as smug, and rather fond of yourself.