To worry about DD 9 not being able to read....it's a long one!

[Helena2000]

They know. I tell them all the time. I have so many meetings about her with the school. They are lovely as individuals, and they all love DD, but they tell me they've got no resources and they are under staffed because they've had their budgets cut by the government, so they can'tgive her what she needs.
I tried to get her referred for assessment but the local authority said she doesn't meet the criteria because the criteria has been tightened because referrals have increased whilst their education budget has been cut.
School did a dyslexia screen last year and the results said she doesn't have dyslexia.
School tell me to teach her at home, but DD wants to switch off when she gets home and gets frustrated when I try to do reading with her, so then it becomes counter productive.
I just go round and round in circles.

The school are letting her down massively. I feel so sad for her. If you can at all afford it, I would highly recommend a private assessment. A ‘label’ as her current school call it will impact what happens when she goes on to secondary school as they are even more short staffed in terms of teaching assistants.

@Helena2000 @LittleRedYarny that's a very very good idea to chop up sentences and get them to re arrange.

Op my dd massively struggled as well.
It was over covid that I did research and got her reading.
Lots of help on here.

I didn't pursue phonics with her and got the first 100 high frequency words flash cards.
We did a couple a week.
She really liked this because it was fast.
Once she had these words everything became much easier.

Then a little like little red yarn I joined something called reading chest and got loads of books out (you choose the titles) from her reading scheme and others schemes but the correct level.

And I went back to the most basic so she could whizz through and get some confidence back.

I also got Peter and Jane books and again these really appealed to her.

I bribed her, occasionally with choclate buttons... Or time on roblox to read.

Op phonics was a barrier for reading and in my view can make it so much harder than it needs to be for certain brains.

I know I would never ever have got phonics but I was a very early reader.

My dd loved the simple clarity of flash cards and Peter and Jane.

Peter.

Jane.

Peter and Jane.

Reading chest subscription was very good value and you can choose books they like.

Behaviouril optimtomitry test... Expensive and about 2 hours.

Is Toe by Toe phonics based? Can anyone recommend a scheme that is not?

I know it’s en vogue and that people will argue it’s the only way- but I’m convinced I learned to read by memorisation and that one of my DC did too. We both make hilarious mispronunciations of rarer words sometimes, though we both have almost always worked out the meaning through context.

My DS who cannot read- at least not beyond a y1 level- also appears to do better with memorising words, but doesn’t have the processing speed - or something - to do this as efficiently as us other family members. Phonics means he can merrily underline digraphs and trigraphs and tell us all about them, but hasn’t helped him decode words.

OP your plan sounds really good. I hope it helps to get stuck in instead of feeling stuck. Your DD is really lucky to have you.

@HayleyhasheKeys

Very interesting article.

Phonics has become like a tribal religion, people get nasty over it and yet extraordinary numbers of children are leaving primary schools barely literate.

Which locks them out of education and then literally locked up in prison.

Because numbers of prisoners who can't read is high.

I've got two dc one got it and one didn't.

Is it any surprises that we need flexibility and we have lost the plot over teaching phonics.
The whole point is simply getting the child to bloody well read

Totally agree.

In our school you can't go up a level if you've not achieved a certain number of sounds so some children have been on the same level for nearly a year. The books are shit too.

Bloody Ruth Miskin has a lot to answer for 🙄

Wanted to say please don’t stress about her age and what time has been lost. In my experience year 5 is a good time to press on with assessments - the key is having them done so the needs and support are clearer for secondary. The younger children are the more it’s put down to “wait and see”. At least by year 5 you can evidence the struggle she has by the gap there is. Primary is very much phonics, phonics, phonics and the solution to struggling with phonics is more phonics.

My DS is 11 and reads at a yr 2 level. A behavioural ophthalmologist has been useful in helping us understand why he struggles with reading and the report was evidence for the EHCP.

Reading eggs is brill as something to engage struggling readers. See if you can get a free trial though as what works for some might not for others.

Also worth a try, whilst waiting for assessments, are coloured overlay rulers on Amazon. The green tints work well for my son who has visual stress. They are not expensive.

Mainly though I’d say press ahead with assessments now. If you did privately fund an educational psychologist check if they are trained in court reports which will help make sure any report they write does what it needs to do in terms of EHCP evidence. Dyslexia assessment can also be evidence if you go via that route which sounds like good starting point.

If she's too tired (emotionally, mentally, physically) in the evenings, see if you can shift the morning routine slightly and do 10 minutes in the morning before you leave for school.

Reading does not have to be books. It can be instructions for a game or craft activity or game play cards in a game, reading the recipe whilst you cook or bake together, can play games involving reading or writing shopping lists or notes or registers, a brochure on a day out. Do a written shopping list when you go to the supermarket and give her the job of reading out the next item and then ticking them off. Labelling things in the house helps with word recognition. Reading the lyrics of a song she likes on the radio so that you can learn the words and sing along.

Modelling is also important. If adults are sitting around reading books, taking a book to bed to them, reading the newspaper it makes it more interesting and necessary-seeming. Being positive about what you are reading, reading interesting or beautifully written bits aloud and discussing them - make reading a really conscious part of the family culture. If you are not already doing it, make sure that adults in the house have a book on the go. For visual effect, I would go for a "real book" and not a book on a kindle or tablet at this stage.

This may not be relevant for you, but I personally believe bedtime book should be for you reading to them not them reading to you. It is time for fostering a love for books and winding down to sleep, not for learning to read, stimulating the brain and potentially in your DC's case getting wound up; but is equally important.

I do read to her at bedtime. I read stories to her. She doesn't do the reading at bedtime, I do. Bedtime is her time to relax and unwind, so I'm not going to start setting her the challenge of trying to de-code the puzzle of words when I want her to relax before she sleeps. We're currently in the middle of a lovely book which she adores, I am reading a chapter each bedtime to her. We've gone through dozens and dozens of chapter books, plus countless picture story books, as it's our thing that we do together every bedtime; we cuddle up in bed, she lays and relaxes, we have a soft lamp on, and she listens to me read to her. Sometimes I read chapter books from start to finish, a chapter a night, other times I read her favourite story picture books all in one go, plus I constantly introduce lots of new ones. I can honestly say I've done this every single evening of her life. It's one of my most favourite things in the world to do, and it's one of hers too. She absolutely adores being read to. She adores stories. She gets lost in the story. She smiles and laughs and exclaims and predicts plots and discusses characters and reflects on messages within the books and she interprets and analyses and critiques them brilliantly. We spend time discussing what's happening in the story and she has a marvellous understanding of all that's weaved through the language of books. She is so engaged with books that she excitedly awaits the next chapter, as she's utterly intrigued to know what happens next.
She's a pure joy to read to!
And she has grown up seeing me read. I love reading.
She's also grown up seeing her sibling read, who's 3 years older than her and a complete and utter bookworm and has been since a young age. Reading clicked so easily for him. He cracked phonics early on, flew through CVC words, worked it all out really quickly and just flew. He was flying through chapter books by the age of 7 and has never stopped since. He reads to DD often too, they sit together and he reads to her with great love and tenderness.
DH reads non stop.
Our house is filled with books.
She has most definitely grown up in a family who reads.

That's really great and so important. She will get there. 💜

@Catopia same for us.
Older sibling is an outstanding reader.

We are not talking about children from homes where literacy is low.

Op, forget the sounding out. Change tack, switch it up and get her rolling again the poor kid!

How do I change tack though? Phonics is all about sounding out. How else can I teach her, as in, what other methods are there?
This feels so hard right now.

And thank you for pointing out that we are not talking about children from homes where literacy is low. DH and I are both degree educated and we both have professions where we have to read and interpret reems of information. Not that our education or jobs have got anything to do with my DD's abilities, but my point is that boy do we read.

https://www.soundfoundations.co.uk/product-category/dancing-bears/

Find the write program but without this my older two would not be reading- Ds especially - 10 minutes in morning makes a massive difference.

We didn't get on with Toe to Toe.

Fun practise https://www.teachyourmonster.org/ - use to be free unsure now but very worth it.

Nessy - not used it personally for reading ://www.nessy.com/en-gb - may be worth a look.

DD1 was tested a few times at school they always said borderline and that seemed to be it. Ds was even worse - couldn't hear sounds in words at all and was getting put off entirely - so glad we stepped in early with him he's just got great GCSE results and started A-levels.

I found if we didn't step in UK education would happily let them fail and keep struggling.

There are sites that sell books for dyslexic - that audio and comics and graphic novels all help keep the interest - Reading chest subscription also helped - but I wouldn't wait for it to magically click or school to find resources .

https://www.spelfabet.com.au/ is Australian so used Australian phonics sound so not hugely helpful but she does https://www.spelfabet.com.au/phonics-resources/ and talks about common problems.

My big regret was being fobbed off with DD1 for so long - as it has left her with spelling issues better than me at same age but DS who we did start very early as we did DD2 are so much better. I had a house full of books and read regularly with them they just struggled hearing sounds in words which set them back so much.

How do I change tack though? Phonics is all about sounding out. How else can I teach her, as in, what other methods are there?

We did the most basic dancing bears book with DS - and it had a tip get him to shout out the word - helped him hear the sounds.

Though I suspect what most people are saying is ditch phonics - despite research it helps hugely and is the best basis and go for whole word recognition - it was popular before phonics though I suspect it why I struggled so much.

readingeggs was an on-line app that started out without phonics - it's been added later so was more mixed methods - not sure what it is now as - my DC had mixed method teaching at school so phonics but older methods like searchlight and just remembering some words - which didn't help my kids.

I strongly suggest dancing bears and finding 10 minutes in the morning but there are still non phonics programs around.

DH and I are both well educated- degrees postgraduate degrees - and I did everything to help them - but I am dyslexic - suspect there some in DH family as well - as well some ND conditions. It was very odd being diagnosed coming from a family with others also properly diagnosed having kids struggling and being constantly fobbed off by the school.

Really pleased you have got Toe by Toe coming. It skips all the extra fluff which takes up space to remember and just focuses on the words. I hope it helps.

Really pleased you have got Toe by Toe coming. It skips all the extra fluff which takes up space to remember and just focuses on the words. I hope it helps.

The other thing Toe by Toe does is focus on sounds and blends, not necessarily words themselves. It brakes things down and checks the child is learning to decode rather than just focussing on word recognition - it feels a bit odd at first to see your child read made up “words”, but it does work.

My son struggled with reading until he was older. Here's some stuff that helped. First, evaluation of tracking. This isn't part of a normal eye exam. To strengthen eyes'ability to track steadily along a line, a key pre-reading skill, play games like catch and frisbee. Second, check her phonics. Some schools neglect this. Third, check if she has an innate atypical directional preference. Hold the book sideways or upside down, or reflect the text in a mirror. This helps roughly 25 percent of kids diagnosed with dyslexia. Fourth, try a wonky font like comic sans or open dyslexic. Avoid sans serif fonts. Fifth, read to her and play audiobooks. This will increase her background knowledge of the world, and studies show that this makes reading easier. Good luck!

In so sad and cross on your behalf at the SENCO attitude.

Of course having a diagnosis is a starting point.

Phonics will probably never work for your DD because her brain doesn't work like that.

My friends DC made amazing and fast progress with BDA system.

I'm actually really excited for Toe by Toe to be delivered!
I'm a very diligent, methodical and thorough person by nature. I will take it on as a very important project.
With this, and my commitment to a private Ed Psych (still can't find one locally but am not giving up) and me doing an EHCP referral, plus I will purchase dancing bear and the reading egg app, I feel 100% focused.
Thank you all. This is all down to your advice and support and information sharing over the past 2 days.
I feel hope......
2 days ago I was rapidly losing hope.xx

My son learned to read aged about 9 or 10. He just kind of resisted all efforts to teach him until then and somehow he taught himself...mostly through wanting to research stuff online I think. He still doesn't love books. He won't read fiction for pleasure, but he can read and can access stuff he is interested in. He's 12 now. His reading age is probably around 7 or 8 I'd guess. He does listen to age appropriate audiobooks and can follow a plot etc, he just doesn't enjoy the act of reading. I think it takes too much effort to actually read, he can't take in what he's read or process it. I think now he has the basics when he's ready he'll be able to read more in depth about what interests him.

Phonicsbooks.co.uk do reading schemes for older new readers which may be worth looking at.

Where abouts do you live?

You don't need an Ed Psych to do a full SPLD screening assessment, just someone qualified to do it. The one we used was lovely and really put my stroppy teen at ease.

This is who we used:

www.literacysolutions.co.uk/meet-the-team/

Interestingly she developed this service and her qualifications because she struggled to get her soon assessed and helped.

I'll PM you where I live.
The thing is, if I pay for a dyslexia assessor, she will only be assessed for dyslexia.
If I pay for an Ed Psych, she'll be assessed more broadly, for dyslexia as well as other things.
Something keeps telling me there's other stuff going on too, as well as dyslexia. I could be wrong, but I don't know and that's the point, I need to find someone who does know.
Looks like Ed Psychs cost just short of £1,000 for 1 assessment though. I can't believe it. I will need a bank loan.

Just to say op. You haven’t failed her. You sound like a lovely mum, doing her best with this without the support you need from the school and the professionals who are supposed to help/ advise.

hope some of the advice on her helps her and reassures you.

@RandomMess
That's weird, the PM option isn't working.
I don't really want to specify exactly where I live, but I'm in the SE.