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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Councils going bust are not all at fault?

141 replies

Turmerictolly · 05/09/2023 20:51

Another council (Birmingham) declaring bankruptcy/severe financial difficulties. Yes, there has been some financial mismanagement but decades of austerity and squeeze from a Tory government haven't helped. I have connections to Birmingham and feel sorry for the sorry state it's in - the streets are filthy and depressing in a lot of areas.

OP posts:
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Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/09/2023 11:33

Perhaps less spending on things like rainbow crossings? ... Or changing road names to virtue signal?

But they LIKE things like this, Hermione; just think of the endless opportunities for committee meetings, bringing in every buzz phrase possible, to say nothing of the "targets" it could generate to wrap everyone else up in form filling - plus of course the non-job opportunities which dealing with all the forms could create

It's said that allegedly cash strapped councils will only be able to deliver statutory provision, but sometimes I wonder what exactly is wrong with that if it prevents vanity projects and mindless interference in issues which are frankly none of the council's business

StefanosHill · 06/09/2023 11:35

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/09/2023 11:33

Perhaps less spending on things like rainbow crossings? ... Or changing road names to virtue signal?

But they LIKE things like this, Hermione; just think of the endless opportunities for committee meetings, bringing in every buzz phrase possible, to say nothing of the "targets" it could generate to wrap everyone else up in form filling - plus of course the non-job opportunities which dealing with all the forms could create

It's said that allegedly cash strapped councils will only be able to deliver statutory provision, but sometimes I wonder what exactly is wrong with that if it prevents vanity projects and mindless interference in issues which are frankly none of the council's business

Yes I was pondering what was included in statutory and whether it’s so bad to get rid of these things

Not sure exactly what falls outside it though

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/09/2023 11:48

Here you go, StefanosHill; there are other duties of course, but the key ones are here: lordslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/lln-2019-0006/#:~:text=Local%20authorities%20in%20England%20have,road%20maintenance%3B%20and%20library%20services.

It's the "discretionary provision" which worries me though, where they're granted the power to meddle in things withhout any actual obligation to do so - and by heck is that power abused Hmm

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/09/2023 11:53

And for anyone who's gone cross-eyed at the prospect of yet another government document, those key mandatory provisions are extracted here:

Education services
Children’s and adults’ social care
Waste collection
Public health services
Planning and housing services
Road maintenance
Library services.

jcyclops · 06/09/2023 13:17

Can I congratulate Birmingham City Council on the ultimate achievement in equality and diversity. No matter what religion, race, sexuality or wealth, the citizens of Birmingham will all have to pay through the nose for the council's financial incompetence. The council is so out of touch I have no doubt they will celebrate this victory.

hiredandsqueak · 06/09/2023 13:19

SkiingIsHeaven · 05/09/2023 22:47

I did some agency work for a local council and was shocked at how much waste went on.

Me moved offices and they threw so much stuff away even perfectly good stationary because they couldn't be bothered moving it.

They chucked out structural reports on their own housing stock, even when there was no back up copy. They said if they needed it then would just pay for a new one.

The amount of sickness was ridiculous. One lady tool two weeks off for a broken toe. He job was to sit on reception and she never normally moved around.

Two people would do the job of one person.

The waste of paper and photocopying was off the scale.

Coming from private practice I was shocked.

I really am not surprised that they are going bust.

No one was accountable for anything. It wasn't their money they were wasting.

Son worked in Local Government, he was considered a hard worker, he could do a full week's work in half a day and spend four and a half days entertaining himself. There was nobody overseeing that work allocated was sufficient to fill the time. Daughter moved from private sector to LG. She was expected to do 5 processes an hour in private sector, it's four in a day if you don't want the line manager to question productivity. It's like a different planet, add to that generous salaries, enhanced pensions, generous annual leave, flexible working and sickness policy they have it made.

cockneysalad · 06/09/2023 14:22

JobMatch3000 · 05/09/2023 21:28

Education and social care are statutory along with things like waste collection - although this doesn't have to be weekly.
Things like grass cutting, libraries and leisure centres are not statutory, or probably school crossing patrol staff.
Not sure about street lighting and potholes.

Libraries are a statutory service.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-libraries-as-a-statutory-service/libraries-as-a-statutory-service#:~:text=Library%20authorities%20(unitary%2C%20county%20or,the%20area%20(section%207).

Libraries as a statutory service

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-libraries-as-a-statutory-service/libraries-as-a-statutory-service#:~:text=Library%20authorities%20(unitary%2C%20county%20or,the%20area%20(section%207).

DonnaBanana · 06/09/2023 15:01

Like many things, Birmingham is a victim of compo culture and calling in the lawyers to sort out problems.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/09/2023 16:01

Son worked in Local Government, he was considered a hard worker, he could do a full week's work in half a day

I had the same on the one and only occasion I worked directly for the council; it was as a PA to a social services director, and in a couple of days I'd cleared three weeks' worth of work which had built up since the last one left
So on the third day I suggested cuttting my own hours to two days, which was actually what I wanted and would of course save them money

The answer: "Ooooo no, all the other directors have a full time PA so I need to have one too"

I walked out ...

Turmerictolly · 06/09/2023 19:30

jcyclops · 06/09/2023 13:17

Can I congratulate Birmingham City Council on the ultimate achievement in equality and diversity. No matter what religion, race, sexuality or wealth, the citizens of Birmingham will all have to pay through the nose for the council's financial incompetence. The council is so out of touch I have no doubt they will celebrate this victory.

This made me (hollow) laugh.

OP posts:
awaynboilyurheid · 07/09/2023 13:01

I expect other councils will follow, Glasgow city centre urgently needs money spent on it, yet huge amounts of money has been spent by the inept council on cycle lanes that go nowhere and hardly used at all, we cheer if we see a cyclist and we don’t cheer often! The SNP council really led by the Green Party have designed it so you cannot drop off anyone by car to let them get near a train station in the city centre, how are disabled people meant to get near a train station?

Also changing all the signs to show Gaelic language on police cars and ambulances well I’m sure even the very few Gaelic speakers in the central belt can work that one out! Waste of public money once again.

hiredandsqueak · 07/09/2023 13:47

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/09/2023 16:01

Son worked in Local Government, he was considered a hard worker, he could do a full week's work in half a day

I had the same on the one and only occasion I worked directly for the council; it was as a PA to a social services director, and in a couple of days I'd cleared three weeks' worth of work which had built up since the last one left
So on the third day I suggested cuttting my own hours to two days, which was actually what I wanted and would of course save them money

The answer: "Ooooo no, all the other directors have a full time PA so I need to have one too"

I walked out ...

It doesn't surprise me. Ds now works in the independent sector, an adjoining council put out their service to tender that the company works for secured. Pretty much an identical set up to our local one. The company allocate six hours a week to cover a whole department and the local authority save millions through outsourcing. Our LA holds on to the service knowing there are cheaper options and the company poach their competent staff after the LA have funded the professional qualifications necessary to the role.

Purplebunnie · 07/09/2023 14:37

SueVineer · 05/09/2023 21:47

It’s really not. Council staff are often overpaid for what they do and have very expensive pensions. I’ve worked in both public and private sector and the stereotypes of the public sector being incredibly inefficient and unproductive are pretty accurate imo.

So earning under £22K a year is overpaid as an administrator

Fuck me how much do you get on a low paid job

KnittedCardi · 09/09/2023 10:28

The good people of Woking, when asked prioritized as follows:

"It follows a public consultation that found residents most valued parks, safety and cleanliness, followed by access to pools and leisure services"

None of which are statutory, and all of which are going to be cut. Why bother asking.

Wsmi · 09/09/2023 11:20

Finally, people are waking up to the utter madness in the public sector where waste is endemic and incompetence is a way of life. In fact, incompetence is probably seen as a virtue.

Half of all spending in this country is done through government. Central or local. What do we get for this enormous spending. These woeful incompetent people have access to half of ALL the cash in this country. All our public services including councils are run by utter morons who are also massively corrupt.

UsingChangeofName · 09/09/2023 17:40

KnittedCardi · 09/09/2023 10:28

The good people of Woking, when asked prioritized as follows:

"It follows a public consultation that found residents most valued parks, safety and cleanliness, followed by access to pools and leisure services"

None of which are statutory, and all of which are going to be cut. Why bother asking.

The thing is, if you haven't stood outside your home, waiting for a fire engine, that won't cross your mind that is a service we all need to pay for.
If you don't have a child with significant SEND, who has no school place, is on a 3 year wait for a medical diagnosis and a 2 year wait for Speech and Language Therapy and has no chance of seeing an OT or a dietician and no chance of getting respite care, then that probably isn't on your radar.
If you have never been homeless, and being homed with your dc in a hostel with people who are drug users, and people with mental health issues, and then lived 4 to a single room with no adequate cooking facilities, then that probably isn't on your radar.

If you haven't been the victim of crime, and had to wait for months or years for the case to work its way through the judicial system, then that won't be on your radar.
If you haven't waited 7 hours for an ambulance, because all ambulance staff are tied up covering the lack of social care and the lack of mental health services the the paucity of funds going into either social care or mental health services probably isn't on your radar.
I can go on and on, but if you are asking people locked in their safe little enclave what money should be spent on, you have to be very clear what it won't be spent on, if it is being spent on parks and leisure centres.

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