Is this ok? Sick leave

Ohdearnamechange · 2023-09-05T13:00:48+00:00

Hey obviously namechanged for this. I've been massively struggling with my mental health for basically my entire adult life - C-PTSD/BPD/depression/OCD all diagnosed. Been sectioned a few times and ended up in hospital multiple times plus addiction issues. I really need to sort my shit out because I can't keep hurting/worrying the people around me. I've found an amazing rehab type place that does all sorts of therapy, EMDR (which I'm very interested in), talking therapy, etc etc. It's expensive but I can pay if it's going to turn my life around. The alternative at the moment frankly is suicide. But... it's 5 weeks min. Is it ok to request sick leave for this? I've never asked for sick leave before and I don't really know how to go about it. I'm pretty sure my GP would write me a letter. If I have a letter relating to my conditions would they be able to fire me? I've only been there under two years. But I really can't afford to pay for this and also have no salary. I've just been reading and it seems that sick pay is for current issues whereas (right now) I'm holding it together semi-ok. Anticipating anyone thinking I'm screwing my employer over, they're one of the biggest companies in the world so I don't really care (I would feel bad about my manager but not as bad as my mum ending up grieving her daughter, realise that sounds dramatic but it's the reality right now). Any advice would be so appreciated.

OnAMidnightTrainToGeorgia · 05/09/2023 14:03

Talk to them? Ask if it could be used as well as annual leave....use the 2 together?

ComeOnThenFanny · 05/09/2023 14:05

Wouldn't it have to be SSP?

Sidslaw · 05/09/2023 14:06

In the end, the can't stop you going, can they? they could just stop your pay or take your job, but it sounds like it would be worth it to you

incrediblehux · 05/09/2023 14:06

Can you request an occupational health assessment at work? It might result in an agreement to take some time out to do this. Whether you would still get paid/be marked as sick is another matter.

JSmithIloveyou · 05/09/2023 14:08

Private sick letters aren't expensive.
Read your work contract.
I'm sure they cannot fire you under the Mental health act.
I am starting EMDR in a few weeks.. just having my assessment ( face to face for 6 weeks at the moment) had counselling/ CBT etc for 30 years.
I'd read up on everything you can find re: sick notes/ mental health act/ work etc.
Also ring the Samaritans if you're on the edge ..please please.. there is people who love you.. ❤️

foolishone · 05/09/2023 14:09

What's your sick leave policy @Ohdearnamechange? Will you get paid?

I think you could argue that this intensive piece of work where you could wholly focus on doing the work and recovery will be better for you and the business than you struggling on and probably needing longer off work.

Your GP will need to sign you off work so you'll need to see if they'll agree but really, what's the difference to scheduling a needed operation?

Ted27 · 05/09/2023 14:09

if you were signed off sick because you had cancer, no one would question whether or not you could go for chemotherapy.

I don’t really see this as any different. Ill health is ill health, whether its mental or physical.
if you really think this will help you I would ask my GP to sign me off for stress and go.

Good luck

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/09/2023 14:14

If you’ve had a mental health condition for more than a year it falls under the Equalities Act as a disability. Your work can’t penalise you for illness considered a disability, check your sick leave policy for limits in terms of absence. If your doctor is prepared to issue a fit note for the period you need then I can’t see the problem in going for inpatient treatment, in exactly the same way you would for physical illness.

It would be much less disruptive than doing all those treatments on an out patient basis.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/09/2023 14:17

(I would feel bad about my manager but not as bad as my mum ending up grieving her daughter, realise that sounds dramatic but it's the reality right now).

And if that’s the reality right now, I’d suggest you aren’t in fact holding it together right now, functioning isn’t the same as holding it together. Go and get the treatment you need.

PickledPurplePickle · 05/09/2023 14:19

Of course you can get your GP to sign you off to attend

Whether you will get paid or not though is going to depend on your contract - it might be SSP only

SapphosRock · 05/09/2023 14:20

If your GP will sign you off for 6 weeks then I would ask for a meeting with HR and explain the situation. I would tell them you are taking the time rather than ask - don't risk them saying no! If you could be flexible on the timing of your leave then tell them, be helpful and suggest times when your absence won't cause problems.

If it's a huge company they will be prepared for stuff like this and have mental health policies in place.

They can't fire you (well they could if you've been there less than 2 years but it's unlikely) but they can decide to manage you out if they decide you will be a problem employee. That's worse case scenario - hopefully they'll be supportive.

Bear in mind you will also have that 6 weeks sick leave on your HR reference and will probably get asked about it in future interviews.

Have you taken other time off? Are you generally doing well in your job? Have you got a supportive line manager? All these things will make a difference.

Original poster

Ohdearnamechange · 05/09/2023 14:24

Thanks everyone. It's just a bit hard to see clearly when you're in the midst of it. I think my main worry is that they'll fire me. It's a brilliant job with a lovely manager and team.

@Jellycatspyjamas thank you so much, I have just looked this up and I had no idea that mental health stuff could be considered a disability. I have been sectioned several times and lost a couple of jobs before this one due to my BPD/C-PTSD) so I think that is classed as a disability by statute

OP posts:

Original poster

Ohdearnamechange · 05/09/2023 14:25

PickledPurplePickle · 05/09/2023 14:19

Of course you can get your GP to sign you off to attend

Whether you will get paid or not though is going to depend on your contract - it might be SSP only

It's not SSP, it's full pay - I was more worried about getting fired as I'm sub 2 yrs

OP posts:

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/09/2023 14:29

I have been sectioned several times and lost a couple of jobs before this one due to my BPD/C-PTSD) so I think that is classed as a disability by statute

I’d think so, it’s handy to have that knowledge up your sleeve - if they do what @SapphosRock suggests and get to manage you out you’d potentially have good grounds for tribunal on the basis of disability discrimination, for which you don’t need to have been employed for two years.

Original poster

Ohdearnamechange · 05/09/2023 14:29

SapphosRock · 05/09/2023 14:20

If your GP will sign you off for 6 weeks then I would ask for a meeting with HR and explain the situation. I would tell them you are taking the time rather than ask - don't risk them saying no! If you could be flexible on the timing of your leave then tell them, be helpful and suggest times when your absence won't cause problems.

If it's a huge company they will be prepared for stuff like this and have mental health policies in place.

They can't fire you (well they could if you've been there less than 2 years but it's unlikely) but they can decide to manage you out if they decide you will be a problem employee. That's worse case scenario - hopefully they'll be supportive.

Bear in mind you will also have that 6 weeks sick leave on your HR reference and will probably get asked about it in future interviews.

Have you taken other time off? Are you generally doing well in your job? Have you got a supportive line manager? All these things will make a difference.

It's probably really ridiculous that I'm asking this as I am their inhouse lawyer. I'm pretty sure (based on what I have worked on in this company) that they would pay me gardening leave for my notice period at least. But I don't want that, I really want to keep the job!

OP posts:

MotherEarthisaTerf · 05/09/2023 14:32

Id do it in a heartbeat.

catgirl1976 · 05/09/2023 14:32

Some of the responses on here are not quite correct. You can’t be discriminated against for having a disability but that doesn’t mean occupational Sick pay can’t be stopped (depending on the terms of it) or that people cannot be dismissed on capability grounds even with a disability

However you’re nowhere near that stage yet OP. I would ask your GP to sign you off and talk to your work. 5 weeks is not that long and as someone else said of you had cancer or broke your leg no one would question it - your mental health should be no different to your physical health

catgirl1976 · 05/09/2023 14:33

Also a lot of references these days only provide job trial and dates of employment and don’t comment on things like Sick leave. You could ask about the policy for that

amispeakingintongues · 05/09/2023 14:37

PickledPurplePickle · 05/09/2023 14:19

Of course you can get your GP to sign you off to attend

Whether you will get paid or not though is going to depend on your contract - it might be SSP only

This

Original poster

Ohdearnamechange · 05/09/2023 14:43

catgirl1976 · 05/09/2023 14:32

Some of the responses on here are not quite correct. You can’t be discriminated against for having a disability but that doesn’t mean occupational Sick pay can’t be stopped (depending on the terms of it) or that people cannot be dismissed on capability grounds even with a disability

However you’re nowhere near that stage yet OP. I would ask your GP to sign you off and talk to your work. 5 weeks is not that long and as someone else said of you had cancer or broke your leg no one would question it - your mental health should be no different to your physical health

Thank you 😊

My contract doesn't specify how much time you can take off at all. It's unlimited. Unless you're fired obviously. But I'm glad to know that my issues are technically a disability because that will change the way they deal with my situation

OP posts:

mycoffeecup · 05/09/2023 14:46

If it's a reputable place and your MH is as bad as you say, then I'd have no issues as a GP with giving you a fit note to cover the time. If it's not so reputable then that might be an issue.

TokyoSushi · 05/09/2023 14:48

I think that you should speak to your GP and your employer. If you needed a hysterectomy for example and were going to be off for 6 weeks, then it's likely there would be no issue, I don't see how this is massively different - you're unwell and you need treatment.

Hope you manage to get sorted OP.

Ascendant15 · 05/09/2023 15:06

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/09/2023 14:14

If you’ve had a mental health condition for more than a year it falls under the Equalities Act as a disability. Your work can’t penalise you for illness considered a disability, check your sick leave policy for limits in terms of absence. If your doctor is prepared to issue a fit note for the period you need then I can’t see the problem in going for inpatient treatment, in exactly the same way you would for physical illness.

It would be much less disruptive than doing all those treatments on an out patient basis.

Sorry but this is incorrect. An employer can definitely penalise you for illness even where it qualifies as a disability. The employer may need to consider if they can allow a reasonable adjustment (usually a small amount of extra sickness days before sickness absence processes start to kick in) but sickness is sickness and they is no special circumstances for disability related sickness. The only form of sickness where it cannot be counted is pregnancy related sickness.

Ascendant15 · 05/09/2023 15:15

Ohdearnamechange · 05/09/2023 14:43

Thank you 😊

My contract doesn't specify how much time you can take off at all. It's unlimited. Unless you're fired obviously. But I'm glad to know that my issues are technically a disability because that will change the way they deal with my situation

Show quote history

Please don't assume that that is the case. It does not necessarily change anything. It would depend on the employer, and there are many factors involved in reasonable adjustments which may or may not include some limited additional sickness days before they start any absence management processes. Nobody excpet you employer can tell you what they think about that. And nobody except a tribunal could determine if they were reasonable or not.

I work for a very large public sector employer with six months full pay and six months half pay as a contractual entitlement. The "trigger point" for sickness absence normally is 9.5 days - because I am disabled I get an extra TWO DAYS! After that I would be placed in sickness absence management which could lead to my dismissal - five weeks would definitely trigger a warning about my absence.

Please don't take as accurate wild statements about disability related sickness being treated differently - there is no law supporting those claims, and people who quote the Equality Act as saying such things simply don't know what they are talking about. People with disabilities have very, very few actual legal entitlements, and those they do have are often bound up in "reasonable adjustments" which is often a complex and fluid concept for which there is absolutely no stipulated legal definition. What is reasonable depends on the circumstances of each and every individual case; and can only be arbitrated in a court of law if it is disputed.

Sickscared · 05/09/2023 15:24

SapphosRock · 05/09/2023 14:20

If your GP will sign you off for 6 weeks then I would ask for a meeting with HR and explain the situation. I would tell them you are taking the time rather than ask - don't risk them saying no! If you could be flexible on the timing of your leave then tell them, be helpful and suggest times when your absence won't cause problems.

If it's a huge company they will be prepared for stuff like this and have mental health policies in place.

They can't fire you (well they could if you've been there less than 2 years but it's unlikely) but they can decide to manage you out if they decide you will be a problem employee. That's worse case scenario - hopefully they'll be supportive.

Bear in mind you will also have that 6 weeks sick leave on your HR reference and will probably get asked about it in future interviews.

Have you taken other time off? Are you generally doing well in your job? Have you got a supportive line manager? All these things will make a difference.

Standard practice is for disability related sick leave to not be counted in anything related to capability/absence, or in future references. op, check your employee handbook on this.