Is this ok? Sick leave

[Ohdearnamechange]

Hey obviously namechanged for this.

I've been massively struggling with my mental health for basically my entire adult life - C-PTSD/BPD/depression/OCD all diagnosed. Been sectioned a few times and ended up in hospital multiple times plus addiction issues. I really need to sort my shit out because I can't keep hurting/worrying the people around me.

I've found an amazing rehab type place that does all sorts of therapy, EMDR (which I'm very interested in), talking therapy, etc etc. It's expensive but I can pay if it's going to turn my life around. The alternative at the moment frankly is suicide. But... it's 5 weeks min.

Is it ok to request sick leave for this? I've never asked for sick leave before and I don't really know how to go about it. I'm pretty sure my GP would write me a letter. If I have a letter relating to my conditions would they be able to fire me? I've only been there under two years. But I really can't afford to pay for this and also have no salary. I've just been reading and it seems that sick pay is for current issues whereas (right now) I'm holding it together semi-ok.

Anticipating anyone thinking I'm screwing my employer over, they're one of the biggest companies in the world so I don't really care (I would feel bad about my manager but not as bad as my mum ending up grieving her daughter, realise that sounds dramatic but it's the reality right now).

Any advice would be so appreciated.

Yes definitely something sick leave should cover.

My friend recently had time off for stress and the doctor suggested signing her off for six weeks! So I think you’ll get the time you need off.

and good for you for looking at solutions to your mental issues from a fellow BPD sufferer :) x

Sorry but this is simply not true. It is not standard practice, it is not common and the law doesn't require it.

An employer can definitely penalise you for illness even where it qualifies as a disability.

By not penalising I meant they can’t treat her less favourably because of her disability, can’t consider her a “difficult employee” purely because of her disability or manage her out the door purely because of her disability. Organisations need to follow their sickness and capability policies (you’ll note I told her to check her employers policy). If they treat her less favourably than her non-disabled colleagues they’ll be on a sticky wicket.

Yes that is true. But nobody is suggesting that the employer treat her less favourably, but some posts have, perhaps through misinterpretation by the OP (and if you read her responses that has definitely been the case that she has read things into what she was told that are not accurate), suggested to the OP that she is entitled to be treated more favourably because she may be classed as having a disability. It has been said that it is standard practice not to count disability related sickness - that is simply not the case in most employments. It has been said that the Mental Health Act says she cannot be sacked - that is simply not true and it says no such thing. It's been suggested she could get a private sick note - which she can, but employers are not obliged to accept them.

The reality is that even with the best of intentions many of the posts here are misleading or just plain wrong. The only way of knowing how the employer will take this is to ask them. Or, if the OP is genuinely currently incapable of working, then the therapy issue is a red herring, because they are simply sick and cannot attend work because of their sickness - not because they want to go for therapy. Which still doesn't change the fact that how the employer will treat a minimum of five weeks off work sick is something that we cannot predict or tell her.

She states that this is a global company - but whilst some (due to their size) may be more accomodating, there is also no guarantee of that because global comanies can actually be some of the worst and least accommodating employers - they are too big to care about national laws, and big and rich enough to ride roughshod over people.

Tbh I'd go and worry about that later

How far away are you from the two years?

The text book answer is a company will not discriminate against you and will support your recovery. I suspect you are entitled to the full 5 weeks off a full pay - you would get that at my company & you would be supported.

The reality is they may unconsciously discriminate and be less inclined to give you more responsibility etc. The annoying thing is if you had an operation and needed 6 weeks off no body would blink an eye.

If you could hang on until the 2 years is up. Then take the leave. There is less they can do and you are more established. Work hard on your return and prove you are an asset to them.

You deserve this. Make it happen but also make sure the timing works for you. Also you can save more and go into it knowing your job was secure, which would aid your treatment.

The bottom line is you need to prioritise your mental health.

@Ascendant15 I get where you’re coming from, there’s lots of misunderstanding about the protections afforded to people with disabilities.

I agree with your final sentence.

But what your company would do is not relevant unless the OP works for the same company. And you don't even know for a fact that the OPs company pay full pay for sickness, never mind "suspecting" they will get full pay for at least five weeks - and can people please read the OP because she said the therapy is at least five weeks, but that doesn't mean it will be five weeks.

It is not discrimination to refuse sick leave ( with or without pay) unless someone is sick. If they are sick then the therapy is irrelevant. People keep comparing it to an operation. But having an operation does not entitle someone to sick leave. The entitlement is if that operation renders a person incapable of doing their job.

But I will lay bets on one thing. If the company don't like this, there will be nothing "unconscious" about their actions.

It is absolutely right that if the OP genuinely believes that this is the right thing for her, the most important thing must be doing what is right for her. But people need to stop telling her what they think the company will do, or what the law says, when they don't know about either. It's hugely irresponsible. The OP needs to balance her realities, not ours or completely made up ones. She's made it clear that she did not believe she can afford to lose her job or her pay. That's her reality. So is the risk of not doing this therapy. But doing the therapy and losing her job may invalidate any gain from the therapy. She needs to decide based on her risks, challenges and realities. Telling her things that are well meaning but not true doesnt help her at all. And could harm her.

I think it’s a grey area OP.

Firstly, you probably are covered by the disability provisions in the equality act, so the 2 year point is probably moot.

Secondly, that being the case, you have an argument that disability related absence shouldn’t be counted (or should be varied) when making decisions over your employment. If they’re risk averse, therefore, it’s unlikely they’ll fire you.

But the third point (grey area) is whether this actually is disability related absence, or whether it is elective, which could offer less protection (but I would still argue it’s a disability related absence!)

If you can get a note from your GP specifically recommending this treatment then on balance I would say the odds are in your favour.

I think you will have to be up front with your employer though. Some organisations would understand and fully support you. Others might say that you can take the leave, but it doesn’t fall under the criteria for occupational/contractual sick pay as it’s an elective treatment (which I suspect is the most likely outcome). Others of course might decide it’s unnecessary, not related to your condition and therefore an unauthorised absence, but I would think that was the least likely scenario.

You could just get signed off sick and tell them nothing of course, but if you’re disappearing for five weeks and unable to meet any reporting/contact requirements then that could be a disciplinary issue in itself, so i personally wouldn’t risk doing that.

Good luck whatever you decide (for what it’s worth I think it’s fine to ask)

Thank you everyone for your advice.

So I've worked with HR on various allegations of bullying/constructive dismissal etc at my current company (by no means a major part of my work in the legal team but it does come up occasionally!). I know that they WERE risk averse and very generous generally. I think the last payout on what was frankly a spurious allegation of bullying was £80k (arranged outside court with a settlement agreement). I know how they were, but we have recently been taken over by a massive US company and there have been redundancies and a major culture change. So I'm just worried this is going to make me an easy target to cut costs.

Thanks again everyone, I will look into this properly. Just having a wee bit of a panic today because I know I need this.

Thank you. I have been to my GP today and she was very strongly pro me getting this treatment. She has written me a sick note. I just need to get this sorted or realistically I'm going to end up dead in a river somewhere (sorry again for the drama but it's reality).

She's said in the letter I'm technically disabled. So I assume I'm protected to some extent.

Honestly this job is not the be all and end all for me - if they want to put me on gardening leave I'm ok with that. The residential stay is more important.

I’m really pleased for you. I hope the treatment gets you a good outcome!

A friend of mine did a similar residential in similar circumstances and has been much better for it for a number of years so my fingers are crossed for you.

You need this treatment either way. Your GP sounds positive, can you explain to your line manager? I would be surprised if this went against you. I work in the nhs (previously did management), I would support you to the best of my ability. Pretty sure my line manager would offer nothing but support in these circumstances too.

Sending you best wishes and strength on your journey.

Thank you everyone. I don't think I'd realised how bad it was. I'm covered in bruises and scars from self harm. I've lost so many friends through suicide/OD and I don't want to put my family through that