Page 3 | Help he won’t leave

Hilfemich · 2023-09-02T12:44:45+00:00

What can you do when he won’t leave when you want and need to end the marriage? 2 dcs. If I live I’ll lose my house and my children’s home. Plus he won’t let me leave with them, it will be incredibly traumatic for them. no crime has occurred no violence but I’m just don’t with the attitude and the raving and ranting and the bully boy behaviour but he won’t leave and says if I want to go I can leave the kids which obviously is a non starter

arethereanyleftatall · 02/09/2023 20:54

Ok op.
Think!!

If he says 'she abuses them' then you say 'no I don't. Can you provide any evidence.' Amd of course he can't.

No judge is ever going to say 'oh ok then, these dc will never see their mother again because the father says so.'

It's just nonsense op and I have no idea why you're falling for it/or not but hiding behind it.

Maray1967 · 02/09/2023 21:00

Hilfemich · 02/09/2023 20:26

No I know he doesn’t get to decide child custody BUT he would fabricate safe guarding concerns or withhold them or drag me through the mud to make sure he never had to spend a night apart. He’s never left them according to him whereas I have (yes twice, I was in hospital and when I relative died). He said he’d say I abuse them or doesn’t think I’d cope. It’s just spite. He’s always ranting and raving at them when he’s frazzled which is often.

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And you could say he hits them or drinks all the time…

He can say what he likes - courts don’t just simply believe allegations made by one party. You need some legal advice but you also need to stand up to him. How about ‘don’t talk bollocks’.

Hollyppp · 02/09/2023 21:26

If you’re scared to leave him because he’s said he would fabricate abuse to the courts to stop you having access to your children then this IS abusive. That is not normal. That is threatening and emotionally abusive

OhcantthInkofaname · 02/09/2023 21:36

A house is not a home if it is filled with tension and trauma. You need to see a solicitor ASAP.

2jacqi · 02/09/2023 22:33

the sheriffs and judges know that there are always two sides to the story. both sides are listened to in court. if you go for this first you can be the assisted party and might be able to claim legal aid. if he becomes aggressive, you can telephone police and they can put him out the house, at least overnight. get things sorted now!

Justtootired55 · 02/09/2023 23:41

I have been in this position and its so stressful. As pp have said you need to talk to a good solicitor. You need to be strong and ignore his threats. Just keep focused on what the future holds for you and the children. My ex refused to put the house up for sale, didn't respond to letters and wouldn't fork out for a solicitor. He got nearly a year of living free of paying a mortgage before he was made to leave the house. It is so hard to walk away from the home you have built but you will eventually come out the other side. I left with lots of debt but the feeling of utter relief not having to live with him again was worth it.

Original poster

Hilfemich · 02/09/2023 23:49

AcrossthePond55 · 02/09/2023 20:33

@Hilfemich

One thing to remember is that he will say anything to frighten and intimidate you to 'get you back in your box'. So his "I will take the kids" or that he 'won't let' you leave with the children aren't necessarily true. But you are his 'cash cow' so he's going to say and do anything in order to keep you down.

Granted if you tried to walk out the door in front of him with the DC he'd raise holy hell, but only to upset the DC, upset you, and then blame it on you. But should you leave with the DC when he is not home (I am NOT saying to do this) nothing short of a court order would force you to hand them back over. Granted, the same goes for him with you. Were he to take the DC and move out you'd have to go to court to get access.

As far as his "I will get custody of the kids" that's just bluster. No court is going to take your children away from you simply because he says for them to do so. Yes, he'd have access unless he's a clear danger to them, maybe even 50/50 residency but that's a decision for the courts to make.

This is where I was saying that you think he has more power than he does. And why it's imperative that you see a solicitor. You desperately NEED to know the actual legal truth of your particular situation. All of us can give you our opinions and/or knowledge of the law from a 'civilian' perspective, but only a solicitor can truly set your mind at rest.

I don't mean to cause alarm, but you mention his family have 'unwestern' ideas. Does this mean they/some of them live in another country? If so, do you have any concern about this shithead trying to take the DC there? If so, you need to alert passport control so their passports can be flagged.

And as PP said, you need to be SILENT about any plans or solicitor visits. Say nothing to him. Don't make 'threats', don't try to 'talk to him' or 'make him see reason'. In fact, avoid talking to him as much as possible.

Yes some live abroad and it’s a third world country, people disappear there to escape criminal charges here or if they’ve been taken back home to marry. I don’t think he’d do that BUT it does happen.

it’s more like forced marriages to cousins, multiple wives (not state registered so legally it’s not bigamy) very anti western sentiment, very backward gender norms, domestic abuse can be rife. I’ve insisted NC with these family members and he’s agreed also thinking their views are awful BUT again to spite me, who knows.

big thing is I think he’d circumcise my son, who’s very young. Too young to consent.

OP posts:

Original poster

Hilfemich · 02/09/2023 23:55

Ridemeginger · 02/09/2023 20:44

@Hilfemich Did you ringfence the house deposit with a deed of trust?

i can’t recall the letter but there was a document about the deposit that we signed with the solicitor about the deposit and that I provided it

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EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 03/09/2023 01:00

Hilfemich · 02/09/2023 16:10

It’s not abuse as such but it’s toxic and it’s a horrible environment for the children. Fact is my mortgage is a lot cheaper than rent on a property half the size (not london either). I earn too much for any help (UC) but equally not enough to sustain myself.

i put the whole deposit for the house, I understand that It would be 50:50 but it’s my kids home. It’s minimising the trauma of them

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It wouldn't necessarily be 50/50 split. If he owns another house and you're marriage counts as a long one (sometimes time together be for marriage can be counted) that could be in the pot too. Go see a lawyer get some advice. Go prepared with the history of the relationship, financial including when he bought the other house and caring contributions, time off for maternity/child care etc. Quick dots points to give a clear overview. You can get a good amount of advice in an hour appointment if you've got the information prepared and easily accessible.

Start keeping a record of who does what with kids, actual hands on care, start keeping a list of his and your time with the kids, contributions round the house etc. Start keeping a list of what he says and does and when. Doesn't have to be big stuff, my lawyer said if you end up in court it all talks to the character of him as partner and father.

Stbxh is abusive, but emotionally and bullying, nothing that means I can get him out of the house. We've been seperated under one roof since April and I won't lie, it's been horrible at times, but then it was horrible beforehand. At times in the past it's been much much worse then where we are now. Things were worse for a bit and he's been doing even less, but it settle down and I've found it easier to deal with him since I haven't had all that mental back and forth worry about telling him and his reaction and since I can mentally seperate now there's an end coming.

He's gotten he's own place and he's moving out. We'll have to sell our home, but that's a hell of a lot better then being with him. You might not find you need to if his second house is in play or if he has a big pension he wants to hold on to. You won't know till you see someone.

We're doing mediation over child arrangements, but I expect we'll be going to court soon as he feels he deserves 50/50 of everything and he's going to continue damaging our kids mental health if I agree to that. He's still bullying the kids and he's now saying more nasty things to them about me because I'm not giving him what he wants. It's a process and we're working through it. I'm so relived we're separated, my mental health is doing so much better and my kids are looking forward to some time without his presence in the house.

EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 03/09/2023 01:11

Hilfemich · 02/09/2023 20:26

No I know he doesn’t get to decide child custody BUT he would fabricate safe guarding concerns or withhold them or drag me through the mud to make sure he never had to spend a night apart. He’s never left them according to him whereas I have (yes twice, I was in hospital and when I relative died). He said he’d say I abuse them or doesn’t think I’d cope. It’s just spite. He’s always ranting and raving at them when he’s frazzled which is often.

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I'd see a solicitor, find out what evidence you need, make a plan of what you need and start working through that, tell him when you're ready. Save a little money he can't access if you can. Write down everything that might be relevant, what he says, what he does, how it's effecting the kids. Write down everything you can. Ask a lawyer about recording one of the rants. Keep all the things you're writing down somewhere safe and backed up. Password protected phone on a Google account he doesn't know about is what I've got. If you've got an apple phone make sure your accounts aren't connected. I know in the past there's been issues with this, I don't know if apples fixed them. The kids may need to be seen by an independent psychologist if it goes to court.

WomanHereHear · 03/09/2023 01:26

Man I guessed he’s probably from my ‘community’ or similar when you mentioned the extra house for his mum and the general nasty attitude of keeping the kids away from you. I know this is across all cultures but something about the ones from my community will do the woman over x1000 just to be nasty, they don’t give a shit about the kids and often use them to hurt the mother. Please give women’s aid a call he does sound abusive and I would absolutely report the anti western views. Be careful about their passports birth certificates and what not. And I would fight tooth and nail to remain in the house, please don’t let him force you to leave. Seek legal advice asap.

k1233 · 03/09/2023 01:36

but it’s my kids home. It’s minimising the trauma of them

leaving a house won't traumatise your children. Living and growing up in an environment where they are constantly walking on eggshells to avoid setting off a volatile person, will traumatise them. Seeing and hearing their mother being verbally and emotionally abused will traumatise them. Many who have grown up in that environment will tell you the same.

junbean · 03/09/2023 02:03

Leaving a bad situation isn’t traumatizing. Living in a bad situation is. You need to leave. Make your plans, save your money, research services and resources. Reach out to family unless they’re toxic as well. The ability is there but you’re making excuses not to.

Willyoujustbequiet · 03/09/2023 02:05

rolvus · 02/09/2023 16:38

Solicitor advised me NOT to leave the home - if you do it is more difficult and not as quick to resolve. She said best course of action was to file for divorce online (cheap option) and start the process. This often gets them out of denial and shows them you mean what you say.

She said it would take at least 12 months to finalise divorce and get a court order to initiate sale of house (if that's what you want). Also in a similar situation re: more than one house. As he has 2 houses, courts would expect him to have one house and you the other. It's pretty irrelevant that his mother lives in the other house. She'd be expected to find somewhere else to live or live with her son.

This.

Do not leave. See a solicitor asap, petition for divorce and also a Child Arrangement Order.

The home generally follows the children so if you are primary carer and have less earning potential/made career sacrifices it won't be 50/50. You can argue the case re the deposit to also be taken into account.

The courts will ordinarily try to keep the status quo as far as the children go in the absence of any abuse or neglect. Both parties housing needs must be taken into account but as he already has another home to go to that will work in your favour. It's also an asset that will tip the divorce settlement your way with regard to your current home.

NeunundneunzigHorseBallonz · 03/09/2023 02:05

Emotional abuse is still abuse

Original poster

Hilfemich · 03/09/2023 10:04

junbean · 03/09/2023 02:03

Leaving a bad situation isn’t traumatizing. Living in a bad situation is. You need to leave. Make your plans, save your money, research services and resources. Reach out to family unless they’re toxic as well. The ability is there but you’re making excuses not to.

I know from experience staying in the home is the legal advice. Stbx doesn’t even want it, not really. I literally have no where else to go. They are in school and childcare and my job is here and I can’t afford solo renting, my share of the mortgage and childcare. I’m not entitled to anything- I’ve already checked

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AcrossthePond55 · 03/09/2023 14:55

@Hilfemich

Yes some live abroad and it’s a third world country, people disappear there to escape criminal charges here or if they’ve been taken back home to marry. I don’t think he’d do that BUT it does happen.

When we're in the clutches of an abusive man our 'denial' tells us "Oh, he would never <insert behaviour>". And then he does.

Remember, right now you are in uncharted territory. You don't know what he might do. At this point I'm sure he thinks he has you buffaloed and you'll be back in your box soon. But his moment of realization will come and at that point all bets will be off.

Again, I'm not trying to 'scaremonger'. I'm just concerned that you are downplaying this particular danger (and possibly others). All the while 'up-playing' other fears (ie losing the DC to him). Doing this will 'paralyze' you and prevent you moving forward. I guess my point is that you do need to consider ALL possibilities, whilst trying to keep calm and quietly make your own plans. So, as far as this particular danger, if you know where the DC passports and birth certificates are and you can quietly move them out of the house, do so. Then deny knowing where they are if need be. At the very least, take pictures of them so you'll have the information you need to alert the passport office and/or get new ones.

And PLEASE see a solicitor. And let your family and friends know what is going on and that you want out. Now is not the time to be embarrassed. Now is the time to say "This is what I'm dealing with. Help me".

Another thing, if you are not in touch with friends and family, ask yourself why. Has he alienated you from them or vice versa? Has he engineered quarrels and then demanded you take 'his side'? Has he bad mouthed them to you and made you feel they "don't really like you?". Are you embarrassed or afraid to contact them because of this? If so, I guarantee that they miss you and have been praying for your call. Yes, you may have to hear a few chorusus of "We told you so", but in the end it will be so worth it!

Original poster

Hilfemich · 03/09/2023 15:45

AcrossthePond55 · 03/09/2023 14:55

@Hilfemich

Yes some live abroad and it’s a third world country, people disappear there to escape criminal charges here or if they’ve been taken back home to marry. I don’t think he’d do that BUT it does happen.

When we're in the clutches of an abusive man our 'denial' tells us "Oh, he would never <insert behaviour>". And then he does.

Remember, right now you are in uncharted territory. You don't know what he might do. At this point I'm sure he thinks he has you buffaloed and you'll be back in your box soon. But his moment of realization will come and at that point all bets will be off.

Again, I'm not trying to 'scaremonger'. I'm just concerned that you are downplaying this particular danger (and possibly others). All the while 'up-playing' other fears (ie losing the DC to him). Doing this will 'paralyze' you and prevent you moving forward. I guess my point is that you do need to consider ALL possibilities, whilst trying to keep calm and quietly make your own plans. So, as far as this particular danger, if you know where the DC passports and birth certificates are and you can quietly move them out of the house, do so. Then deny knowing where they are if need be. At the very least, take pictures of them so you'll have the information you need to alert the passport office and/or get new ones.

And PLEASE see a solicitor. And let your family and friends know what is going on and that you want out. Now is not the time to be embarrassed. Now is the time to say "This is what I'm dealing with. Help me".

Another thing, if you are not in touch with friends and family, ask yourself why. Has he alienated you from them or vice versa? Has he engineered quarrels and then demanded you take 'his side'? Has he bad mouthed them to you and made you feel they "don't really like you?". Are you embarrassed or afraid to contact them because of this? If so, I guarantee that they miss you and have been praying for your call. Yes, you may have to hear a few chorusus of "We told you so", but in the end it will be so worth it!

That was exactly my point, i don’t think he’d do that stuff, but I bet the ex partners of the blokes that have done all sorts of bonkers things, at one point, said exactly the same. so it can and it does happen

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andHelenknowsimmiserablenow · 03/09/2023 16:05

As PP have said.
Remove passports and birth certificates from the house if possible and store them somewhere else.
Contact legal advisor urgently but do not let OH know you are doing or have done this until you know the next step to take.
Follow the legal advice you are given about the house sale and the divorce petition.
Do not listen to his threats and log and report every one of them for your legal advisor. Say you will file for a restraining order if they continue.
When the house is on the market don't engage in arguments that will lead to you thinking you must leave to avoid the drama. Keep calm and keep your children calm.
Know that soon this will be over, it won't be easy and you will live somewhere smaller probably, but it will be worth it.