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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to expect police assistance?

81 replies

Tabitha1960 · 31/08/2023 23:08

I've tried to keep this short but not so short that I end up drip feeding in response to questions...

I am a disabled pensioner. One Friday a few weeks ago I invited a local builder to quote for various works to my home. He was well spoken, polite, charming and gentle and I liked him instantly. After discussing the work I needed we fell into friendly chatting until he said he had to dash as he had to find himself a bed for the night. A week previously he had left his wife and small children after discovering she was having an affair, and intended to rent a room in a house (which here costs about £150 a week) but as a stop-gap he had been obliged to pay £100 a night to stay in a local hotel. The hotel was fully booked for the weekend (we are a holiday town) so he had to find somewhere to sleep that night.

He asked if I had a spare room or knew someone who did, and I replied that I do take in lodgers but the only unoccupied bedroom was completely empty, awaiting new furniture for a lodger who was moving in in two weeks' time. He said the £100+ a night for a hotel was crippling his finances, as he was still paying the mortgage on the family home, so he'd even sleep on a floor for a night or two until a bed could be obtained. He'd give me £200 a week to stay until my new lodger moved in, plus he would perform all the little 'handyman' jobs (which have been accumulating for ages) free of charge whilst he was here (though he'd still charge me for the big jobs.) He scrabbled around in his bag for proof of ID to show me, and also handed me his passport, the photo and name and age all matched what he had told me. I phoned a local secondhand shop and a bed was delivered that evening. The builder had to go out to do a few more quotes then returned, exhausted, and flopped into bed, promising to go to the cash machine next day to get the rent money. Then next day there was a problem with his card (wife had got it stopped or something) and he could not take money out but he'd soon sort it and pay me the £200 as promised. He gave me his passport to retain as security.

He was lovely and helpful, friendly and polite for two days, we got on well and had lots of chats and laughs, and then suddenly he changed, like Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde. He started walking into my private rooms, including my bedroom when I was in bed, without even knocking, sitting down audaciously and behaving however he liked. He helped himself to my food and openly eavesdropped on all my phone calls, commenting on what I said and did. He was rude, aggressive and repeatedly told me I was a horrible person and that he despised me. He announced that he had no intention of paying me a penny or doing any more handyman tasks - no reason given. Naturally I told him that he must leave my house but he refused and said he'd stay as long as he liked. His body language made me feel scared and physically intimidated: I am a 5ft 3in female disabled pensioner, he is 35, 6ft 3 male, and a fit, muscle-bound builder. I felt extremely vulnerable and frightened. I have a lodger - a young lady - but she was out for the day.

I dialled 999 but the call handler refused to send anyone "until he actually hits you. Then you should call us back." I kept on saying that I was a vulnerable disabled pensioner but this changed nothing. He became very angry at me for calling the police on him and smugly smiled at their refusal to help me. I became so scared of him that an hour or so later I left him in the house and went straight to the police station in person, trembling and crying all the way.

I gave the officer on the front desk a brief outline of my problem and gave them his full name and date of birth, which I got off his passport. I asked if a bobby or two could come to my home and just be present for a few minutes whilst I told the man to leave. He could see my age and disability, yet he refused to send anyone! He said it was a civil matter and to evict a tenant I would have to apply to the County Court for an eviction order, which could take months. I explained that the man was not a tenant or a lodger: we had signed no agreement and he had paid me no rent. The policeman said we had a 'verbal agreement' which was 'legally binding.' I repeatedly told him that the man was stealing my food, invading my privacy, saying really nasty things about me and physically intimidating me. I was not asking them to arrest him but simply stand there silently when I told him to leave. I felt that was all that would be needed to make him go quietly. I kept on and on pleading, and broke down sobbing and told the officer that I was too scared to go home, but he just dug his heels in. 'No criminal offence had been committed", so there was nothing the police could do. I had invited the man into my house voluntarily so it was not a police matter. I asked him if this applied to house-cleaners, electricians, district nurses, estate agents and meter-readers and he said YES, if any of them chose to stay and refused to leave it would take a civil court action to get them out. To say I was gobsmacked would be a massive understatement! Our conversation was heard by the other desk officers who were watching and listening and none of them intervened so he must have been correct in what he told me.

He finished up by telling me that my predicament was entirely my own fault: I had been a fool to let him stay. I reminded him that every single day, all over the UK hotels, b&bs, guest houses, AirBnBs, youth hostels and even hospitals allow complete strangers to stay the night. Are they all stupid and foolhardy, and are all the guests entitled to stay forever unless the owner takes them to court? In my young days I travelled the whole UK and have knocked on the door of many a B&B with a 'vacancies' sign in the window, been admitted without any ID and shown to a room, then paid when I was leaving.

When I left the police station, my burning sense of injustice was further inflamed by recalling a Youtube video I had recently seen in which five police officers (of the neighbouring force to mine) were sent to arrest Darren Brady, a harmless, middle-aged man, for re-tweeting a humorous political meme, because an unnamed person called the police to say he found the meme 'offensive'. How come being accused by a random stranger of being 'offensive' on Twitter warrants five officers being tied up for an hour and a man being arrested, handcuffed and thrown into the back of a police van then a police cell (hours later he was released without charge) whilst my being genuinely terrified of a man actually in my home was a 'civil matter'?

In the end my lodger and me got the man out ourselves, by a trick. He bombarded us both with abusive texts for about a week. After he'd gone I discovered that since April he'd scammed and robbed several people in my town, they had all reported him to the police, who said that they could do nothing as they 'could not find him.' Yet when I walked into the station and told them his name and d.o.b. and told them he was at my house, they would not come!

Should I process a complaint that the police failed to help a frightened disabled pensioner lady in distress? Is there any point in complaining if that really is the law as it stands? Or should I be lobbying my MP to get the law changed?

I don't feel that I can just let this pass. It could happen to some other poor lady. What do you think I should do?

OP posts:
fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:33

If they aren't tenants what are they ?

Are you paying tax etc ?

I've rented rooms before and this all sounds very dodgy.

Felix125 · 01/09/2023 00:34

Itsjustmeee

It also depends on the specific of the order and how the breach has occurred. Is it a chance meeting (say in a shop etc) or has he approached you?

If there is no ongoing threat, harm & risk, it will fall onto a cops crime queue to deal with in due course.

Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 00:41

TizerorFizz · 01/09/2023 00:29

@Tabitha1960 You should get tenants vetted via an agency. Pay them. How do tenants find you? Just advertising is very risky. Getting rid of a tenant is a civil matter. The police won’t be interested as you have discovered. So take more care and don’t be gullible. I also think you need to get financial references and be a lot more careful about who stays with you. Are you a HMO meeting all legislation?

  1. You ought to know that people who rent a room in house are not tenants.
  2. Agencies will not find or vet lodgers.
  3. He was not a tenant; nor was he a lodger.
  4. Financial references do not exist. Who do you think gives them? Neither banks nor employers can guarantee that someone will be a good lodger or pay their rent on time.
  5. "advertising is very risky" - how do lodgers and landlords find each other without advertising? I generally advertise on Spare Room, but Spare Room the website does not interview or vet lodgers.
  6. It's not actually possible to "vet" anybody. IME references are worthless.
  7. "Take more care" and you won't get mugged, robbed, raped, but if you are, then "it's your fault?"
OP posts:
Itsjustmeee · 01/09/2023 00:43

@Felix125

I get that they are busy but taking the time to call and ask me my gender is a piss take

it was a chance meeting however he took the opportunity to harrass me and follow me across the rd into another street
he should have just carried on walking
he was under 10ft for me and is supposed to stay a min of 100 meters from me and my house and my partner

the order is until further notice -no end date and can only be change by order of a variation by the crown court which is quite unusual as most R/O have an end date and we got this because of the level of violence and on going harrasment over many years from him

whats more disturbing that in the video the kid he’s with ( think it’s his son ) you can clearly see he’s hit a large bladed weapon of some sort and I have a screen shot of this

when i rang the police they did say that as long as I have the evidence I say I have ( which I do ) then they would arrest him

Felix125 · 01/09/2023 00:43

Tabitha1960

If you went into the police station with his details, didn't the front desk staff run him though their system? It would have flagged up that he was wanted or a robbery - which is quite a serious crime

How much food has he taken - or is it a case that you just wanted him out and are not too bothered about the food he ate?

If you were in immediate fear of this male in your house, then a 999 call should have resulted in a response, but if you stated that he was a tenant/guest that just wont leave it will be civil matter.

Were there set places in the house that he was told are 'out of bounds'?
Do you have 'private' on those doors for example?

Also, the five cops arresting the person for 'hurty words' - it will depend on what the words were, was it a crime in law (harassment, mal comms), what was the state of the enquiry, was the offence ongoing, was he refusing to answer the door, was he wanted for other offneces etc etc - were some of those officers there for a specific reason (door enforcer), were they just happened to be double crewed that day, were they the transport for the suspect.....

Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 00:46

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:33

If they aren't tenants what are they ?

Are you paying tax etc ?

I've rented rooms before and this all sounds very dodgy.

"If they aren't tenants what are they ?"

If you don't know the answer to this, why are you engaging with this thread?

"Are you paying tax etc ?"

Oh, so you are suggesting that, because a man threatened and scared me, then I must be a tax-evading criminal. That is quite a leap.

"I've rented rooms before and this all sounds very dodgy."

Oh so I am "dodgy" as well.

Are you like this on all the threads you respond to?

OP posts:
Greenshake · 01/09/2023 00:49

@fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft I agree with everything you say. This whole thing is ludicrous.

StellaGibson2022 · 01/09/2023 00:50

Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 00:29

If I had given him a "formal lodging agreement and a rent book" as you suggest, it would not have changed anything that happened - ie that he refused to pay his rent and refused to leave, and intimidated me, and stole my food, and had scammed others in the past. In fact, it would have merely have bolstered the police's insistence that he had a right to live there!

If you have nothing useful to advise me about making a complaint about the police, then don't waste your fingers gloating and berating me.

Your post is no different than "if you didn't want to be raped, why did you wear that short skirt?"

There is a world of difference between you inviting a stranger to stay in your home and someone being raped.

Felix125 · 01/09/2023 00:52

Itsjustmeee
So he was aware that he has seen you and has not walked the other way - indeed he has deliberately followed you for a period of time?

Has anything else happened following this?

That is to stay - is it ongoing, further breaches etc

Did you see the blade itself and were you threatened with it?

The call handler should not have said that he will definitely be arrested as that will be at the discretion of the cop. You will still need a necessity to arrest and he could be interviewed as a voluntary attender.

Either way - it is a breach, but with it happening in the past, it will be allocated to a cop to contact you.

Not sure why they re-contacted you to ask your gender. It could be that they did not want to assume on the crime report. Do you have a name which can be used for a male or a female?

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:54

Yeah I'm like this on all
Threads - it's called common sense .

Shame more people don't engage it .

Felix125 · 01/09/2023 00:55

Tabitha1960

What was the specific threat he made to you?

StellaGibson2022 · 01/09/2023 00:56

@mumsnet Is this poster genuine?

Thread is quite disturbing with
the OPs responses, analogies and general tone towards public services

Greenshake · 01/09/2023 00:58

@fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft I am starting to get a distinct whiff of BS with this tale.

Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 00:59

Felix125 · 01/09/2023 00:43

Tabitha1960

If you went into the police station with his details, didn't the front desk staff run him though their system? It would have flagged up that he was wanted or a robbery - which is quite a serious crime

How much food has he taken - or is it a case that you just wanted him out and are not too bothered about the food he ate?

If you were in immediate fear of this male in your house, then a 999 call should have resulted in a response, but if you stated that he was a tenant/guest that just wont leave it will be civil matter.

Were there set places in the house that he was told are 'out of bounds'?
Do you have 'private' on those doors for example?

Also, the five cops arresting the person for 'hurty words' - it will depend on what the words were, was it a crime in law (harassment, mal comms), what was the state of the enquiry, was the offence ongoing, was he refusing to answer the door, was he wanted for other offneces etc etc - were some of those officers there for a specific reason (door enforcer), were they just happened to be double crewed that day, were they the transport for the suspect.....

I don't know what the officer did with the details I gave him. He was tapping at a computer keyboard but I could not see the monitor.

He just ate what he wanted. It wasn't the theft of goods that bothered me but the way he did it to show me that he had thrown the normal rules of decency and respect out of the window.

Anyone would realise that a landlady's bedroom is out of bounds, particularly when she is inside, possibly in a state of undress. No lodger has ever walked into my bedroom before.

It wasn't hurty words it was a publicly re-post meme (sorry, it was Facebook, not Twitter). It was not directed at any individual and was not harassment or mal comms. He opened the door and co operated 100%. The whole thing was filmed by politician Laurence Fox and ex-police officer Harry Miller, and is on Youtube and was covered by newsmakers across the world and was the subject of a Triggernometry episode.

s

Police arrest army veteran for Facebook LGBT meme

00:00:00 Hampshire Police has scrapped an awareness course for people accused of 'hate' crimes. It comes after the force was criticised for arresting an army...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=11s&v=YT0dWm0i1cI

OP posts:
StellaGibson2022 · 01/09/2023 01:03

@ all - I have completely lost the thread. What are all the you tube videos; is this the lodger?

lawrence fox?

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 01:04

This reply has been deleted

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Willyoujustbequiet · 01/09/2023 01:06

Flopsythebunny · 31/08/2023 23:52

The police were right though, it was a civil matter because even though he hasn't paid the rent you had a verbal contract with him. Because he broke that contract by not paying rent you would have to follow the legal route of evicting a lodger.
Hotels and guest houses have a different type of contract.

Threats and intimidation are not a civil matter.

Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 01:08

Well this soon disintegrated: now I am being accused of making it all up and being called a liar and even a tax dodger.

I really don't know why I bothered wasting my time. There are a few genuine people who try to help, but they are outnumbered by a load of nasty gloaters who just want to sneer, mock and victim-blame. I rarely post and this has reminded me why.

Thanks to the few who gave me the advice I was looking for: how best to raise a complaint. The rest of you ought to be banned from this site as you have nothing of value to add. Sneering and mocking an elderly disabled lady for being conned isn't advice.

OP posts:
fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 01:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 01:10

In short
YABU. Yes.

Gabiabbi · 01/09/2023 01:11

Urgh, this is disgusting - I'm so sorry OP. You sound like the kind of person that we need more of in the world. I hope karma gets to you both - to him in the worst way possible and to you in the most wonderful way possible! Nothing helpful to add other than I'm so sorry this happened to you 😓

Tabitha1960 · 08/09/2023 17:22

LivStanshall · 31/08/2023 23:22

Haven’t you heard of cuckooing? It’s when someone takes over a vulnerable persons home. That’s what is happening here and the police should have done something.

Thanks to you, @LivStanshall I have now heard of and read up about cuckooing. I had never heard of it until your post!

This knowledge, along with other things I have found out about him (drug-dealer and user etc) has helped me to see that cuckooing is EXACTLY what this was all about.

Apparently MANY vulnerable people have had this happen to them. I'm not the only trusting old fool to be taken in by a confidence trickster with a hidden agenda.

I have just now submitted my complaint against the PEO (police enquiry officer) at the front desk. (I rang up and got his name and rank.) He definitely should have heard of cuckooing and should have spotted it in my case.

Also since I last posted on this thread (which was hidden for a week) it came to light that he stole my credit card and took down my debit card numbers. He has used these to gain over £1,500. He also took the front door keys and I was obliged to call in an emergency locksmith to change the locks, which cost me £200.

Lastly he has gone on to do similar to other local elderly or disabled people, and the police STILL have not apprehended him. Those poor sods could have been protected had the police come here and arrested him when they got the chance :-(

OP posts:
Tabitha1960 · 08/09/2023 17:23

StellaGibson2022 · 01/09/2023 01:03

@ all - I have completely lost the thread. What are all the you tube videos; is this the lodger?

lawrence fox?

Are you joking or genuine?

and PS there was no lodger, only a cuckoo!

OP posts:
ZombieNations · 08/09/2023 22:29

My goodness! This honestly makes me so scared for people who live alone and those wanting to genuinely offer a home to others.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, I can’t imagine the terror, especially as we think the police should be there to help! civil dispute or not, what happened was appalling, and they should have responded!
I really hope you get your money back, and that thieving scumbag gets what’s coming to him!
take care🌷

Tabitha1960 · 10/09/2023 16:20

MolkosTeenageAngst · 31/08/2023 23:27

Being disabled or a pensioner is irrelevant. You are entitled to no more or less help than anybody else when a crime is being or has been committed.

You were beyond foolish to let this man stay at your house, people who have lodgers or Airbnb etc use contracts, agencies etc to help regulate and get deposits and payment details etc. Nobody deserves to be scammed or intimidated but it was very stupid of you to invite him into your home in the first place. Once you had invited him in if he wasn’t actually doing anything illegal I can understand why the police didn’t have the time to attend and why they felt it was a civil matter. In future try to use some common sense when it comes to letting random people come and stay in your house.

@MolkosTeenageAngst I "let random people come and stay" in my house all the time. It's my profession and has been for a quarter of a century. Would you rather I went on the dole and sponged off the state?

And I am very far from "stupid". You are, though, if you believe a private contract between a lodger and a landlord has any legal standing. Very foolish.

What is the point of responding just to hurl insults? Does it make you feel big and superior to me?

OP posts:
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