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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to expect police assistance?

81 replies

Tabitha1960 · 31/08/2023 23:08

I've tried to keep this short but not so short that I end up drip feeding in response to questions...

I am a disabled pensioner. One Friday a few weeks ago I invited a local builder to quote for various works to my home. He was well spoken, polite, charming and gentle and I liked him instantly. After discussing the work I needed we fell into friendly chatting until he said he had to dash as he had to find himself a bed for the night. A week previously he had left his wife and small children after discovering she was having an affair, and intended to rent a room in a house (which here costs about £150 a week) but as a stop-gap he had been obliged to pay £100 a night to stay in a local hotel. The hotel was fully booked for the weekend (we are a holiday town) so he had to find somewhere to sleep that night.

He asked if I had a spare room or knew someone who did, and I replied that I do take in lodgers but the only unoccupied bedroom was completely empty, awaiting new furniture for a lodger who was moving in in two weeks' time. He said the £100+ a night for a hotel was crippling his finances, as he was still paying the mortgage on the family home, so he'd even sleep on a floor for a night or two until a bed could be obtained. He'd give me £200 a week to stay until my new lodger moved in, plus he would perform all the little 'handyman' jobs (which have been accumulating for ages) free of charge whilst he was here (though he'd still charge me for the big jobs.) He scrabbled around in his bag for proof of ID to show me, and also handed me his passport, the photo and name and age all matched what he had told me. I phoned a local secondhand shop and a bed was delivered that evening. The builder had to go out to do a few more quotes then returned, exhausted, and flopped into bed, promising to go to the cash machine next day to get the rent money. Then next day there was a problem with his card (wife had got it stopped or something) and he could not take money out but he'd soon sort it and pay me the £200 as promised. He gave me his passport to retain as security.

He was lovely and helpful, friendly and polite for two days, we got on well and had lots of chats and laughs, and then suddenly he changed, like Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde. He started walking into my private rooms, including my bedroom when I was in bed, without even knocking, sitting down audaciously and behaving however he liked. He helped himself to my food and openly eavesdropped on all my phone calls, commenting on what I said and did. He was rude, aggressive and repeatedly told me I was a horrible person and that he despised me. He announced that he had no intention of paying me a penny or doing any more handyman tasks - no reason given. Naturally I told him that he must leave my house but he refused and said he'd stay as long as he liked. His body language made me feel scared and physically intimidated: I am a 5ft 3in female disabled pensioner, he is 35, 6ft 3 male, and a fit, muscle-bound builder. I felt extremely vulnerable and frightened. I have a lodger - a young lady - but she was out for the day.

I dialled 999 but the call handler refused to send anyone "until he actually hits you. Then you should call us back." I kept on saying that I was a vulnerable disabled pensioner but this changed nothing. He became very angry at me for calling the police on him and smugly smiled at their refusal to help me. I became so scared of him that an hour or so later I left him in the house and went straight to the police station in person, trembling and crying all the way.

I gave the officer on the front desk a brief outline of my problem and gave them his full name and date of birth, which I got off his passport. I asked if a bobby or two could come to my home and just be present for a few minutes whilst I told the man to leave. He could see my age and disability, yet he refused to send anyone! He said it was a civil matter and to evict a tenant I would have to apply to the County Court for an eviction order, which could take months. I explained that the man was not a tenant or a lodger: we had signed no agreement and he had paid me no rent. The policeman said we had a 'verbal agreement' which was 'legally binding.' I repeatedly told him that the man was stealing my food, invading my privacy, saying really nasty things about me and physically intimidating me. I was not asking them to arrest him but simply stand there silently when I told him to leave. I felt that was all that would be needed to make him go quietly. I kept on and on pleading, and broke down sobbing and told the officer that I was too scared to go home, but he just dug his heels in. 'No criminal offence had been committed", so there was nothing the police could do. I had invited the man into my house voluntarily so it was not a police matter. I asked him if this applied to house-cleaners, electricians, district nurses, estate agents and meter-readers and he said YES, if any of them chose to stay and refused to leave it would take a civil court action to get them out. To say I was gobsmacked would be a massive understatement! Our conversation was heard by the other desk officers who were watching and listening and none of them intervened so he must have been correct in what he told me.

He finished up by telling me that my predicament was entirely my own fault: I had been a fool to let him stay. I reminded him that every single day, all over the UK hotels, b&bs, guest houses, AirBnBs, youth hostels and even hospitals allow complete strangers to stay the night. Are they all stupid and foolhardy, and are all the guests entitled to stay forever unless the owner takes them to court? In my young days I travelled the whole UK and have knocked on the door of many a B&B with a 'vacancies' sign in the window, been admitted without any ID and shown to a room, then paid when I was leaving.

When I left the police station, my burning sense of injustice was further inflamed by recalling a Youtube video I had recently seen in which five police officers (of the neighbouring force to mine) were sent to arrest Darren Brady, a harmless, middle-aged man, for re-tweeting a humorous political meme, because an unnamed person called the police to say he found the meme 'offensive'. How come being accused by a random stranger of being 'offensive' on Twitter warrants five officers being tied up for an hour and a man being arrested, handcuffed and thrown into the back of a police van then a police cell (hours later he was released without charge) whilst my being genuinely terrified of a man actually in my home was a 'civil matter'?

In the end my lodger and me got the man out ourselves, by a trick. He bombarded us both with abusive texts for about a week. After he'd gone I discovered that since April he'd scammed and robbed several people in my town, they had all reported him to the police, who said that they could do nothing as they 'could not find him.' Yet when I walked into the station and told them his name and d.o.b. and told them he was at my house, they would not come!

Should I process a complaint that the police failed to help a frightened disabled pensioner lady in distress? Is there any point in complaining if that really is the law as it stands? Or should I be lobbying my MP to get the law changed?

I don't feel that I can just let this pass. It could happen to some other poor lady. What do you think I should do?

OP posts:
fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 31/08/2023 23:47

Blowdown · 31/08/2023 23:45

@Tabitha1960 this could’ve been my brother when he was in the throes of a bi-polar episode, really nice, then bang nasty!

The police are loathe to get involved with any MH issues anymore, shameful but true.

Because it's not their remit and they are not the right resource to deal with medical issues

Police have become the whipping boys and the answer to everything when their actual remit is to solve crime

They aren't the right resource for medical episodes - the ambulance and nhs and mental health services are paid and trained for this not the police

Blowdown · 31/08/2023 23:47

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 31/08/2023 23:44

This annoys me slightly that people make terrible decisions but then expect other people to sort out their lives for them .

Police do not have endless resources

If others have indeed reported him then the information you gave will be of use in those investigations if he's a con man .

There will most definitely be a backstory to this and the police response.

What constitutes a “terrible” decision? Drinking and getting drunk, then accepting being raped was justified? Being duped by a con man that takes all your money, that’s justified?

we all make bad decisions sometimes, everyone of us, but we don’t deserve to be abused etc because of that!

Blowdown · 31/08/2023 23:50

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 31/08/2023 23:47

Because it's not their remit and they are not the right resource to deal with medical issues

Police have become the whipping boys and the answer to everything when their actual remit is to solve crime

They aren't the right resource for medical episodes - the ambulance and nhs and mental health services are paid and trained for this not the police

That’s a recent decision and previously police assisted with sectioning, because often they were the ones called to the erratic and unacceptable behaviour.

Who would you suggest OP calls in this situation?

Where does she start the ball rolling for the person to get the help they need?

MMorales · 31/08/2023 23:51

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 31/08/2023 23:47

Because it's not their remit and they are not the right resource to deal with medical issues

Police have become the whipping boys and the answer to everything when their actual remit is to solve crime

They aren't the right resource for medical episodes - the ambulance and nhs and mental health services are paid and trained for this not the police

But he was stealing from her and financially abusing her in her own home.

These are Police matters arent they?

Tabitha1960 · 31/08/2023 23:52

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 31/08/2023 23:38

It is a civil matter , but that said I would wait until he leaves the house , chuck his stuff out and change the locks and if he becomes abusive or won't leave the police would come out .

He isn't technically a lodger , there's no tenancy agreement. Just chuck him out and call 999 if he won't leave , they will come out then

Bear in mind when you go into a station or phone either 999 or 101 it is NOT a police officer you get through to and they have no real training on the letter of the law.

Enquiry desks are staffed by civilians as are the call centres you get through to .

Take more direct action for yourself and ring 999 if he refuses to leave

And do yourself a favour - be much much more discerning about inviting people into your home .

@fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft

"be much much more discerning about inviting people into your home"

He was polite, respectful, gentle, helpful and friendly, and he proved his ID, which matched everything he'd told me. I am genuinely curious to know in detail how you envisage I can be "much more discerning". What more could I have done?

I have lodgers here all the time and never meet them more than once before they move in. About a dozen moved in without my even meeting them, because they came from abroad. I cannot get to know prospective lodgers over a period of weeks or months, to test them and study them, etc. People look for a rented room when they are ready to move, when they need a room in a week or a month, not months or a year in advance.

OP posts:
Vergeofbreakdown23 · 31/08/2023 23:52

I 100% think you should make a complaint and send a copy to your local MP. Nothing might not come out of it, but it will help you feel like you have done something pro active.
Do you have a local friends/Facebook group you can alert and speak to also?
Well done on getting him out, hopefully you never encounter him again and I'm sure you know how much worse this could've turned out so please be extra careful and only use builders or tradesmen recommended by friends, family or local builders suppliers xx

Flopsythebunny · 31/08/2023 23:52

The police were right though, it was a civil matter because even though he hasn't paid the rent you had a verbal contract with him. Because he broke that contract by not paying rent you would have to follow the legal route of evicting a lodger.
Hotels and guest houses have a different type of contract.

MMorales · 31/08/2023 23:53

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 31/08/2023 23:44

This annoys me slightly that people make terrible decisions but then expect other people to sort out their lives for them .

Police do not have endless resources

If others have indeed reported him then the information you gave will be of use in those investigations if he's a con man .

There will most definitely be a backstory to this and the police response.

Just because a bad decision has been made doesnt mean you forfeit the right for Police assistance.

If a crime has occurred the Poloce should get involved. And the op said he was stealing from her in her own home.

Tabitha1960 · 31/08/2023 23:53

thanks for that link, I will pursue this tomorrow!

OP posts:
rubydoobydoo · 31/08/2023 23:54

He was also potentially a danger to the OP and was stealing from her.

Tinkerbyebye · 31/08/2023 23:55

Yes raise a complaint. Sounds like cuckooing to me

TenOhSeven · 31/08/2023 23:56

As if anyone would do this!

WandaWonder · 31/08/2023 23:59

If there is a crime the police can act on that they are not social workers and stop having strangers stay if it causes issues

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:00

If you choose to take a lodger then you get references , and do it properly not take in some chancer with a sob story .

People take zero responsibility for their own lives anymore .

I'm not equating that with being a victim of rape . Not in any way . I'm not blaming anyone for being a victim of crime , but to make a decision to take ina lodger under these circumstances is batshit .

I don't buy that the police wouldn't do anything either . There's a spin to this particular story .
As there often is on here.

An officer in notts has just died trying to save a man on train tracks . There is zero respect for policing on here and the chorus of "all police are useless complain " actually does get my goat. Sorry , but anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't just take in waifs and strays out of self preservation.

There is a prevalent anti police agenda on this site and I don't believe half of what's posted is the truth.

It's all spin. This is the same site I read where the responses to genuine issues are often spite filled , hate fuelled and unhelpful.

My opinion , just my opinion. Free speech is fine to say cats getting trapped in houses is a troll, advocating being nasty to children posting "gifts" to a neighbour , calling troll at every post that stretches the imagination of everyday normal folk.

If in a genuine emergency situation someone calls 999 they will get an emergency services response whether it be fire, ambulance or police,

If a crime has been committed they will get a response even if it's slow.
If someone is suffering a mental health crisis they will get a response if lives are in danger but it's time people realise the police aren't the people to call for every situation going .

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:05

Op have you reported a theft ?

If so , then there'll be a crime generated and it will be investigated slow time .

It wasn't an emergency situation.

SullysTail · 01/09/2023 00:06

I would concentrate more on making sure he doesn't do this to anyone else, tbh. I'm not sure on the legalities of naming and shaming him on socials but if the police said it was a civil matter unfortunately I'd be inclined to believe them. They only uphold the laws, they don't write them.

I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. It's difficult to believe there are such awful people around when you are instinctively nice and kind, I know.

Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 00:14

@fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft

What a load of balderdash. I can't address all your points but I will reply to some ...

Firstly, references are worthless. Landlords write glowing ones to get rid of a lodger they don't want; employers have nothing to say about the employee's private home life and personal ones are a joke as a friend will make up any old nonsense.

Secondly, there is no "back story" to what happened to me. I have had no dealing with the police for many years, and everything I have written is true. I am asking for advice, so what would be the point of lying? I intend to take up a complaint against the police. I am not here to pass my time away!

Lastly, I DO take responsibility for my actions. I make most of my living from letting rooms and have done so for a quarter of a century. Your telling me not to take in strangers is exactly like telling a shopkeeper who has been robbed that they were in the wrong to open a shop, in case they ever get robbed.

In the UK alone, thousands of people let rooms in their own homes. Thousands of people need lodgings when they first arrive in a town, or because they cannot afford to rent a whole flat or buy a home. You wish to deprive all these people, many of whom are doctors and nurses, of a home, making them pay beyond their means to stay in hotels until they can afford to rent a whole property?

Why not think it through before posting?

OP posts:
fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:21

If that's how you vet potential tenants by how they come across initially with some ridiculous sob story then you're gonna get burned and I'm surprised this is the first time .

Did you report a theft to the police ?

If you did you will have a crime number.

StellaGibson2022 · 01/09/2023 00:21

Did you not seek references, have a formal lodging agreement and rent book set up OP? As someone who has lodged that would be the minimum I would expect.

you have said yourself that you felt vulnerable - why on earth then would you let a complete stranger stay in your home?

I agree with a previous poster that there is a back story to this but even without I think your bad decision - to let a stranger stay in your home - is not a police matter. In fact I would go so far as that this is a waste of public money.

Make better decisions about who you let stay in your home in future and put this down to experience. A lesson learnt.

For what it is worth if I was lodging with you and you put me in this vulnerable position you would be getting my notice asap.

Itsjustmeee · 01/09/2023 00:23

The police are generally shit in my experience
someone has a restraining order on them for life not to harass or come within 100 meters of me due to his violence

he broke this order over two weeks ago
I reported it to the police informing them that I gave clear cctv evidence and mobile phone video and I have 4 witness who have all sent me text message confirming that they recognized him in the video and at the time and would be happy to make a statement confirming this with there names and address

the police called back once to ask me my fucking gender 😂😂they assigned an officer but I expect he’s out painting rainbows on zebra crossings or harrassing someone for. a hate thought crime

much easier than real police work

So I’ve sent an email to the courts direct to the judges chambers requesting a variation of the order letting the judge know that the police aren’t enforcing his order as last time he was really pissed off at the police behaviour as they did the same

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TizerorFizz · 01/09/2023 00:29

@Tabitha1960 You should get tenants vetted via an agency. Pay them. How do tenants find you? Just advertising is very risky. Getting rid of a tenant is a civil matter. The police won’t be interested as you have discovered. So take more care and don’t be gullible. I also think you need to get financial references and be a lot more careful about who stays with you. Are you a HMO meeting all legislation?

Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 00:29

StellaGibson2022 · 01/09/2023 00:21

Did you not seek references, have a formal lodging agreement and rent book set up OP? As someone who has lodged that would be the minimum I would expect.

you have said yourself that you felt vulnerable - why on earth then would you let a complete stranger stay in your home?

I agree with a previous poster that there is a back story to this but even without I think your bad decision - to let a stranger stay in your home - is not a police matter. In fact I would go so far as that this is a waste of public money.

Make better decisions about who you let stay in your home in future and put this down to experience. A lesson learnt.

For what it is worth if I was lodging with you and you put me in this vulnerable position you would be getting my notice asap.

If I had given him a "formal lodging agreement and a rent book" as you suggest, it would not have changed anything that happened - ie that he refused to pay his rent and refused to leave, and intimidated me, and stole my food, and had scammed others in the past. In fact, it would have merely have bolstered the police's insistence that he had a right to live there!

If you have nothing useful to advise me about making a complaint about the police, then don't waste your fingers gloating and berating me.

Your post is no different than "if you didn't want to be raped, why did you wear that short skirt?"

OP posts:
Tabitha1960 · 01/09/2023 00:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

None of them are tenants. You know nothing about this subject and are here merely to blame the victim.

OP posts:
fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 01/09/2023 00:30

Itsjustmeee · 01/09/2023 00:23

The police are generally shit in my experience
someone has a restraining order on them for life not to harass or come within 100 meters of me due to his violence

he broke this order over two weeks ago
I reported it to the police informing them that I gave clear cctv evidence and mobile phone video and I have 4 witness who have all sent me text message confirming that they recognized him in the video and at the time and would be happy to make a statement confirming this with there names and address

the police called back once to ask me my fucking gender 😂😂they assigned an officer but I expect he’s out painting rainbows on zebra crossings or harrassing someone for. a hate thought crime

much easier than real police work

So I’ve sent an email to the courts direct to the judges chambers requesting a variation of the order letting the judge know that the police aren’t enforcing his order as last time he was really pissed off at the police behaviour as they did the same

If it's a breach of court order they'll be getting / needing statements and evidence from you , the witnesses and then they'll arrest him/her

But you won't be an immediate response.