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Original poster

Cambridge University Slavery Research

133 replies

CallumDansTransitVan · 31/08/2023 17:42

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/31/ex-tory-mp-threatens-sue-cambridge-university-slavery-research-antoinette-sandbach

Read this article today & I'm sure it will bring mixed feelings. Interested to know other peoples thoughts on it.

My personal feeling is if I had been the lady in question. I would of ignored her name being included, as the likelihood was that the paper in question would of been fogotten about fairly quickly.
But I do believe she should not be outed for the actions of ancestors who were dead long before she came into existence. Nor do I see any justification for including her name on the paper.

Before anyone starts on oh but she has family wealth due to the history. None of these families were exactly paupers even before slavery.

Ex-Tory MP threatens to sue Cambridge University over slavery research

Student says he has been pressured to remove a reference to Antoinette Sandbach, a descendant of a slave merchant

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/31/ex-tory-mp-threatens-sue-cambridge-university-slavery-research-antoinette-sandbach

OP posts:
stripeyjug · 31/08/2023 19:19

It's a tough one. There's a lot of old money today with nefarious history that is glossed over.

RomaniIteDomum · 31/08/2023 19:20

The birth, marriage and death records of this country, which would have made the connection between the two possible, are a matter of public record.

It not like he's uncovered something that people couldn't work out for themselves if they were so inclined.

And I say this as someone descended from slave traders myself.

As a PP said, I am not them.

stripeyjug · 31/08/2023 19:20

She can't be held responsible for the actions of her ancestors - I don't think she should have been named.

Has she benefited from those actions though?

HarrietSchulenberg · 31/08/2023 19:21

The woman named has a history of threatening legal action regarding her perceived good gharacter and is a thoroughly unpleasant person. A few years ago she threatened me because I shared a social media post about her parliamentary expenses. She told me to delete it or she'd instruct her solicitors. I asked her which bits of it she disagreed with as I was happy to make a correction. She kept on and on about me being a dangerous subversive and in the end all she had was that the picture had been taken from her website without permission. I replaced the (quite nice) picture with a hideously unflattering one that I got from the BBC website and kept the text.
She stalked me for an hour or two and got much of it wrong. She said that she knew where I was but she gave a completely incorrect location. She got some bits right (she knew my dog's name and that I had children) so she'd had a good old nosey looking for dirt on me.
Turns out she'd threatened quite a few other people that day for sharing the same thing. We all hoped that she went to her solicitors as promised but none of us heard from them so they probably told her to get lost.

Spendonsend · 31/08/2023 19:21

I dont really get why she didnt just state she valued the research and denounce her ancestors actions and leave it there. The rest of her comments were all a bit whataboutery.

stripeyjug · 31/08/2023 19:22

@WeaselCheeks I agree with you. she's been singled out but there is definitely a wider issue & ignorance.

stripeyjug · 31/08/2023 19:24

Indeed. Also puzzled by the posters saying "it's not her fault, she didn't do it!!", when I don't think the student is saying she did, is he? If she's still benefitting from slavery money, she's still benefitting from slavery money. So are loads of people. It's the way of the world. I wonder if the real reason she's upset is because she's worried about reparation claims?

This

Diffrent · 31/08/2023 19:26

Spendonsend · 31/08/2023 19:21

I dont really get why she didnt just state she valued the research and denounce her ancestors actions and leave it there. The rest of her comments were all a bit whataboutery.

Yeah, she's whipped it all up, the silly sausage. I'm sure we've all got arseholes in our family histories. I'm no more responsible for them than I am for the ancestors who did good things. So I'm not really bothered if I'm named as a descendent.

But I wonder if I'd feel differently if I was a millionaire and my money came from arseholery. I guess I'll never know!

Vomitcomet · 31/08/2023 19:27

This didn’t sit well with me when I read it earlier. There probably isn’t a single wealthy family of ‘old money’ whose fortune hasn’t been built on exploitation of others. I think if we are going to start naming people we shouldn’t be singling people out.

I dug into the German side of my family tree and found some things that I found quite abhorrent. I certainly wouldn’t want to be named in connection with their actions. Though at the same time I don’t financially benefit.

stripeyjug · 31/08/2023 19:29

It does appear she has benefited from it

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66648763.amp

CocoonofDavid · 31/08/2023 19:30

Doesn’t seem to have done Richard Drax much harm…. And he still owns the family’s sugar plantation in Barbados!

If anyone’s interested Hilary Beckles does a brilliant talk on YouTube about the Drax family history. He estimates 30,000 black enslaved people died on Drax Hall estate, and were heavily involved in writing up the ‘rules’ on how white owners dealt with their slaves.

stripeyjug · 31/08/2023 19:31

There probably isn’t a single wealthy family of ‘old money’ whose fortune hasn’t been built on exploitation of others.

This is why I get so confused about posters seeing old money as far more classier than new money. Yes, new money is walking around with a logo covered tracking but no slavery! 😆

LakeTiticaca · 31/08/2023 19:33

He is not a slave and she is not a slave master.
Maybe people should concentrate more on what is happening now, ie: modern day slavery, rather than what happened in the past

JaneyGee · 31/08/2023 19:40

IWFH · 31/08/2023 18:45

It's a really interesting one this and I'm in two minds about it.
While I don't believe that the sins of the fathers should be visited on their descendants; it would appear that a substantial amount of the family wealth is as a result of profits made through slavery, including (quite possibly) the holiday homes now let by her business.
Assuming that this is factually correct I'm not sure why this should be kept a secret.

The stupid thing she has done is protesting about it. All that has done is to ensure that it is now very visibly in the public domain.

Britain's wealth wasn't derived from slavery. It came from the industrial revolution, and the industrial revolution was built on the backs of the white working class. Also, in 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all slaves in the Empire. We borrowed so much the debt wasn't paid off until 2015.

Another inconvenient fact: "The Barbary states of North Africa waged a war of piracy and enslavement against all shipping that passed through the straits of Gibraltar. Thousands of vessels were taken, and more than a million Europeans and Americans sold into slavery." That's a quote from Christopher Hitchens. Should Morocco and Libya compensate us?

This obsessive focus on slavery and colonialism is part of a larger campaign to make British people ashamed of their history and identity. I recently tuned in to a Radio 4 program about Jane Austen, for example, and within five minutes they were talking about slavery. And just look at the new books in Waterstones. It's ridiculous. Title after title attacking Britain. Recently, a left-wing agitator called Tariq Ali published a book on Churchill. It was reveiwed by the leading Churchill historian, a man who knows his subject inside out, and he dismissed it as a mix of distortions, cherry-picked quotes and outright lies, all designed to make Churchill seem like a monster. This is going on day in day out.

Diffrent · 31/08/2023 19:42

LakeTiticaca · 31/08/2023 19:33

He is not a slave and she is not a slave master.
Maybe people should concentrate more on what is happening now, ie: modern day slavery, rather than what happened in the past

He's literally a historian though. But yeah let's stop studying history because it makes some people feel weird and upset. That'd be a great way to operate a society!

DinnaeFashYersel · 31/08/2023 19:43

She is no longer a public figure. She should be allowed to live a private life.

bellac11 · 31/08/2023 19:46

Rather naively, I have only just became aware of the sub sarahan slave trade which puts another perspective on different levels of exploitation and the numbers of countries involved

Its never talked about as far as I can see

DisquietintheRanks · 31/08/2023 19:54

JaneyGee · 31/08/2023 19:40

Britain's wealth wasn't derived from slavery. It came from the industrial revolution, and the industrial revolution was built on the backs of the white working class. Also, in 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all slaves in the Empire. We borrowed so much the debt wasn't paid off until 2015.

Another inconvenient fact: "The Barbary states of North Africa waged a war of piracy and enslavement against all shipping that passed through the straits of Gibraltar. Thousands of vessels were taken, and more than a million Europeans and Americans sold into slavery." That's a quote from Christopher Hitchens. Should Morocco and Libya compensate us?

This obsessive focus on slavery and colonialism is part of a larger campaign to make British people ashamed of their history and identity. I recently tuned in to a Radio 4 program about Jane Austen, for example, and within five minutes they were talking about slavery. And just look at the new books in Waterstones. It's ridiculous. Title after title attacking Britain. Recently, a left-wing agitator called Tariq Ali published a book on Churchill. It was reveiwed by the leading Churchill historian, a man who knows his subject inside out, and he dismissed it as a mix of distortions, cherry-picked quotes and outright lies, all designed to make Churchill seem like a monster. This is going on day in day out.

Show quote history

Many of the raw materials that powered the industrial revolution were produced using slaves. The two go hand in glove.

DisquietintheRanks · 31/08/2023 19:56

It's talked about in Africa @bellac11

Diffrent · 31/08/2023 20:00

Its never talked about as far as I can see

You are joking?

mathanxiety · 31/08/2023 20:02

CallumDansTransitVan · 31/08/2023 19:03

I agree wholeheartedly we should all learn history warts and all. But again to do the research properly, You need to look at how these poor slaves became into the property of European or American slave traders. A great many were captued by other Black African tribes and sold to the traders for guns, spices, tobacco decorative items etc.

Has anybody ever done research into family trees of wealthy or influential African families.

Show quote history

I was with you up until you posted that.

Speaking as someone whose family tree holds a good few skeletons.

mathanxiety · 31/08/2023 20:10

JaneyGee · 31/08/2023 19:40

Britain's wealth wasn't derived from slavery. It came from the industrial revolution, and the industrial revolution was built on the backs of the white working class. Also, in 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all slaves in the Empire. We borrowed so much the debt wasn't paid off until 2015.

Another inconvenient fact: "The Barbary states of North Africa waged a war of piracy and enslavement against all shipping that passed through the straits of Gibraltar. Thousands of vessels were taken, and more than a million Europeans and Americans sold into slavery." That's a quote from Christopher Hitchens. Should Morocco and Libya compensate us?

This obsessive focus on slavery and colonialism is part of a larger campaign to make British people ashamed of their history and identity. I recently tuned in to a Radio 4 program about Jane Austen, for example, and within five minutes they were talking about slavery. And just look at the new books in Waterstones. It's ridiculous. Title after title attacking Britain. Recently, a left-wing agitator called Tariq Ali published a book on Churchill. It was reveiwed by the leading Churchill historian, a man who knows his subject inside out, and he dismissed it as a mix of distortions, cherry-picked quotes and outright lies, all designed to make Churchill seem like a monster. This is going on day in day out.

Show quote history

What an execrable post.

Where do your think the capital came from to invest in the industries of the industrial revolution? Was it all hidden under mattresses?

Where do you think the cotton came from that was spun in the mills?

Britain paid a whopping amount of money to Britons who held slaves in tne Empire. Not a single penny of it went to the enslaved people themselves. And then the rulers of the various outposts of the Empire 'imported' people from India and China as 'indentured servants' whose labour continued to line the coffers of the capitalist class.

Give your head a wobble.

bellac11 · 31/08/2023 20:19

DisquietintheRanks · 31/08/2023 19:56

It's talked about in Africa @bellac11

Yes of course, I meant that the discussions I see and read about are all about the imperial powers/colonists and the West African/West Indies trade

I dont see long discussions about the Arabs/Ottoman empire and the middle east in Africa

BethDuttonsTwin · 31/08/2023 20:22

JaneyGee · 31/08/2023 19:40

Britain's wealth wasn't derived from slavery. It came from the industrial revolution, and the industrial revolution was built on the backs of the white working class. Also, in 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all slaves in the Empire. We borrowed so much the debt wasn't paid off until 2015.

Another inconvenient fact: "The Barbary states of North Africa waged a war of piracy and enslavement against all shipping that passed through the straits of Gibraltar. Thousands of vessels were taken, and more than a million Europeans and Americans sold into slavery." That's a quote from Christopher Hitchens. Should Morocco and Libya compensate us?

This obsessive focus on slavery and colonialism is part of a larger campaign to make British people ashamed of their history and identity. I recently tuned in to a Radio 4 program about Jane Austen, for example, and within five minutes they were talking about slavery. And just look at the new books in Waterstones. It's ridiculous. Title after title attacking Britain. Recently, a left-wing agitator called Tariq Ali published a book on Churchill. It was reveiwed by the leading Churchill historian, a man who knows his subject inside out, and he dismissed it as a mix of distortions, cherry-picked quotes and outright lies, all designed to make Churchill seem like a monster. This is going on day in day out.

Show quote history

Well said. Bored to tears with it all. My ancestors were dirt poor, all living in poverty in the West Midlands. My children’s fathers lived in poverty in Ireland, his line only escaped by an ancestor marrying a Welshman and getting out. I bear no responsibility whatsoever for any historical wrongs committed by privileged wealthy men.

Diffrent · 31/08/2023 20:24

bellac11 · 31/08/2023 20:19

Yes of course, I meant that the discussions I see and read about are all about the imperial powers/colonists and the West African/West Indies trade

I dont see long discussions about the Arabs/Ottoman empire and the middle east in Africa

Show quote history

Really? I see it popping up every time there's an attempt at a discussion about Britain's role in the slave trade, especially on Mumsnet and Twitter. It's a nifty way of shifting focus away from the main topic while still being broadly on the subject. Top tier whataboutery. It's admirable, in a way.