To believe that men universally make a massive deal and faff out of DIY?

[BigButtons]

I know it’s a sweeping generalisation.
Having recently moved house into a house that needed stuff done- big and small- I am all the more determined to learn how to do jobs myself.
Big stuff I am leaving to skilled tradesmen.
putting up shelves, mounting tv’s on walls, smallish tiling re grouting jobs- re sealing bathroom- I wish I had been taught how to do those myself but I will get the tools and learn.
I have had people in- paid and unpaid - unpaid because they were male friends who offered their help- there was drama.
Mind you even my paid sparky took an age and seemed to feel the need to talk to me about everything. I just wanted him to fix the things that needed fixing, drink the tea and eat the biscuits and come round when he said he would.
Shouting, swearing, stress, forgotten tools, broken tools, just drama and neediness and everything taking an age.
I don’t think most women would do the drama.

Anecdote

We had four self-assembly storage cubes to build (
i.e. things that couldn't be simpler). I built three while the husband was still faffing with one.

Even "professional" tradesmen can behave like that. We had a right neanderthal gas-safe engineer who made a right big deal of replacing a boiler - lots of huffing and puffing, swearing, singing "mission impossible" theme tune, just constant noise from him, complaining about everything, missing parts, his boss, etc. An absolute nightmare. Then the bloody thing didn't work after he left, and he kept trying to blame me, saying I didn't understand how the new combi boiler works, etc. Really arrogant. Told us to contact the Gas suppliers as it "must be low gas pressure". Gas suppliers came and condemned it, putting a "don't use" sticker on it and disconnecting it. Turned out the prick had botched the installation, hadn't filled out the installation checklist, hadn't signed off the paperwork and had left it unsafe! We refused to have the same guy back and told the boss of his firm to send someone else, who was completely different, re-installed it properly, did all the safety checks and paperwork, etc., no fuss at all!

OH used to hate DIY and, yes, seemed to make a big deal out of it. But, over the years, he's built up one hell of a selection of tools, spare parts, extras, etc., and can now do most things without fuss at all. And he's not a "manual" person at all - yet now, he'll happily put up shelves, build flat pack furniture, replace bath panels and shower screens, swap a radiator, swap electrical fixtures (light fittings, wall heaters, etc). What he tends to do is buy all the things he thinks he may need in advance, then takes back whatever he doesn't use for a refund. Much better than getting half way through a job and having to traipse out to Wickes for bits and pieces or a special tool.

It really depends on the person. Except for regulated things like electrics and gas, I think a reasonably competent DIYer with a good selection of tools, bits and pieces can do a pretty good job comparable with an average tradesmen.

Even qualified/regulated tradesmen can be disorganised etc. We have a long standing plumber who we use for plumbing and he's a nightmare - his van looks like a bomb site, literally just a huge pile of tools and parts in the back of it, no shelving, no toolboxes, etc., When he needs a tool or a component, he dives into the pile and rummages around, like a dog digging a hole, until he finds something that'll do! He's also very messy, i.e. pipes often kinky rather than straight, etc., but we use him because he actually comes out to do the job rather than messing us around.

I’m not really talking about unexpected issues whilst working- shit happens- but the faffing before the job starts. Yes the bizarre tidying of an area unrelated.

I don't think it's a "man versus woman" thing though. Lots of blokes can be pretty good, quiet and efficient. We've had a woman plumber and a woman decorator, and wouldn't have either back. Yes, they're not as loud, arrogant, etc., but neither was competent and both seemed to struggle with pretty simple tasks. The decorator in particular was very shoddy, you could see all the wallpaper joins, it wasn't level (pattern ran off badly top and bottom) and the tops/bottoms weren't straight. We re-papered it ourselves a couple of years later and did a perfect job.

No faff from DH at all. I think it’s person, not sex, dependent.

I agree with other posters that many diy jobs often escalate from a relatively simple task to 3 other increasingly complicated ones, moving incrementally away from your knowledge base.

There's three types of people, tradespeople, Diy-ers and people who do diy. Diy-ers are basically semi-pro and have most of the kit, people who do diy have the bare minimum and buy tools as they need them, or bodge it as best they can.

Diy can be extremely stressful, especially when you have limited time/budget. I recently refurbished our kitchen. Cheapest quote was 10,000, I did it for 3 - it's obviously not nearly as good as if a tradesperson did it (I'm firmly in the 'people who do diy' group), but it works, looks better (at best!), and saved us 7,000 we really didn't have.

However, I have to say it was one of the most stressful periods of my life. I was doing tasks I'd never done before, 'safe' in the knowledge that if it went wrong it would cost us money we really couldn't afford, and stretch out the length of time the house was in a huge mess for even longer. I cried about 3 times, and I never cry (not 'cos I don't think men should, I just don't).

The pressure was really on me in a role that I'm ill-equipped for (it's entirely different to my day job), my wife, by her own admission, couldn't have done it, and our kitchen, for a variety of reasons, was an absolute disaster, and just getting worse. With limited finances, therefore, I had to do it.

I'm always loathe to talk about gender roles and the pressure on men/women to fit them and 'do what a man/woman should', as overall women have it entirely worse. But societally, there is an expectation that as a man you do this stuff, regardless of your skills or experience or temperament, and although for years I called BS on that sort of sexism, I can't pretend that it didn't affect how I felt about myself.

Although, fortunately, that thinking is changing, and while there are some men who are performative in their skills/effort, some of us are just stressed and challenged by what are actually quite difficult skills, and also feel the real or just assumed pressures to complete them, regardless of our ability to do so.

@Appleofmyeye2023 I think that's a very interesting perspective. I definitely agree that men's "skilled" work is valued very differently to women's.

Everything can be a song and dance when DP is involved. Not because he's a twat (not in that way, at any rate), but because he doesn't have the spatial awareness or planning chip in his brain.

If I do something, the area is clear with enough space to move around, I have the appropriate tools within reach, I know what I'm doing and how to do it, along with potential problems and their solutions/mitigations in place before a single piece of toolery leaves its case.

He, however, doesn't and then gets caught without the correct tools, in assorted house detritus, in insufficient space and with a nightmare moving exercise post assembly. I've almost perfected the routine of walking in, looking and either leaving without a word or asking after assessing the situation 'Coffee?', as that's his opportunity for explaining what's going on and mine for offering assistance.

A shorthand for this would be to say that I'm quite mechanically minded and methodical whereas these aren't his stronger skills.

@PietariKontio

I'm always loathe to talk about gender roles and the pressure on men/women to fit them and 'do what a man/woman should', as overall women have it entirely worse. But societally, there is an expectation that as a man you do this stuff, regardless of your skills or experience or temperament, and although for years I called BS on that sort of sexism, I can't pretend that it didn't affect how I felt about myself.

I agree. People just seem to "assume" that men should do the DIY and that's just the same lazy thinking as those who think women should do the cooking, cleaning and ironing. The only reason men should do the DIY is physical strength which most men have more of than women, on average. But a lot of DIY jobs don't actually need physical strength, so shouldn't really be lazily assumed to be "men's" work at all. Fair enough to needing strength to hang a big radiator or a boiler on a wall, but for decorating, putting together flatpack furniture, putting up a shelf, etc., the average woman is strong enough! I'd say for "finishing off" and cosmetic work, a woman is probably better, i.e. painting, wallpapering, hanging a shelf in your living room, siliconing around a bath, sink, etc., etc., as women are more likely to have the attention to detail etc., rather than the roughshod "don't have time for detail" approach of many men/tradesmen.

Perhaps we need to concentrate more on our inherent skill set and abilities rather than making it yet another man versus woman argument?

NOT AT ALL!!!! we generally are that incompetent (no acting involved)

Totally agree op. Had a guy re tile our bathroom.. it took a month! His back went... he had family emergency... there was a flood... 🙄🙄🙄

Yes. Even for a completely simple non-messy job in the middle of a bright summers day, DP stick on his head torch, he will get out all the tools, lay down all the dust sheets, watch all the YouTube videos.

In these cases, I usually just go ahead and do the bloody job while he's been piss-arsing around.

Last year, I unceremoniously took over painting of the bathroom ceiling before I started calling divorce solicitors. Our bathroom is about 2mx2m with a plain white ceiling but you'd think DP was touching up the fucking Sistine Chapel.

'Right, so we're painting on Saturday. '
'Erm , no. '
Why?
Because I need to sand x down first.
OK, so after you've sanded.
No. Because then I need to prep the area and mask up.
OK, so after that. I can mask up.
No you can't you don't do it properly. And anyway, I was going to do a costco trip, so there won't be time.
But I can start it.
But I haven't bought the paint.

Every. Fucking. Time. We've been decorating together for nearly 20 years. I do think he's getting worse. He also takes lots of breaks, and talks about what needs doing a lot, whereas I just plough on until it's done.

He's the same with cleaning. Takes a whole day to do one room, whilst I can wizz round the rest, but there's still stuff he missed. Like taps, cupboards.
....

Everyone is "incompetent" at things they've never done before though.

I'd be "incompetent" at baking a cake if I'd never been taught and didn't do it often. If I decided to re-upholster a chair, I'm pretty sure I'd be incompetent at it the first time, probably lots of tutting, swearing, etc., especially if I didn't have any tools other than a basic toolkit!

DIY's tend (by definition) to do things very occasionally, and seldom get chance to do the same kind of thing time and time again, so it's entirely reasonable for a task to be hard or time consuming. Something that would take a trainee, say, a few hours or doing the same thing a few times, soon becomes easy to them, but a DIYer may only do that same thing once every few years, maybe even only once ever, so they don't get the same learning/experience from repetition that a tradesmen would build up.

So, no, in general, I don't think people (of whatever sex) make a massive deal and faff of things they've no experience and knowledge of. I think it's entirely to be expected. I have absolutely zero sympathy, though, for tradesmen to act like that, as it's their job, and if they don't have experience/knowledge/tools, they shouldn't be charging the customer for something they can't competently do!

Great post. You've hit the nail on the head.

I don't think there's a problem with having good preparation really. Both me and DH would lay out cover sheets, tool boxes, our "bits and pieces" boxes, power tools, etc., and yes, a head torch. Saves so much faffing around later, with constantly coming and going to the garage to get other tools, parts, etc., that we end up needing. DH usually buys stuff "just in case" as well, but takes what we don't use back for a refund. We're definitely "preppers" when it comes to DIY.

Obviously we don't go to that extent for really small stuff, like putting up a shelf, but even then, we need the dustpan/vacuum for drilling the wall, spirit level, drill, electric screwdriver set, box of wall plugs and fixings, etc.

Mine is definitely a faffer but not just with diy. Washing up takes 3 times longer. Everything takes 5 billion questions (which I now ignore or tell him I don't know). He can't possibly do anything he hasn't done before whereas I look shit up or watch YouTube videos and crack on. One day I'm going to ask him eleventy billion questions as I do so.

I generally do these things myself unless they require lots of strength or height.

There are loads of videos on you-tube.

Still in 2023 women are expected to be able to do household tasks yet many/most men can't do those tasks or traditional male tasks such as basic diy.

I think its about knowing what you are capable of, I've done diy stuff myself because im trying to save money

Nope. Not in my experience. My husband is a professional, not a tradey. He does DIY occasionally and I always marvel at how brilliant he is at it, and how stress-free. I really hate these "husband" negative posts. If a man wrote on here "my wife hates bring a stay at home mum", there would be such backlash.

My non-woke dad says something similar about women's football: it's better because they just get on with the game, no drama!

@BigButtons I think until you do it on your own and do an excellent job you need to accept some tasks are not as simple as you make out and stop with the sexist bullshit.

My Dh is a godsend with DIY, some things he gets wrong and others he gets perfect every job is different. He also always askes if I want to help and tries to show me but I'm no DIYer.

last week I asked him to wire up the doorbell whilst he was going to install his new CCTV camera. It seemed simple enough to me on the face of it, until he had to run cables through the walls from the outside up a huge ladder and then under the floor boards removing all out laminate floor carefully and replacing it and carpets in the bedroom. Plastering where the drill had knocked plaster off on the inside wall, repainting and then sorting out the electrics, data and programming all the equipment.

Also compounded by finding out we don't have a wide enough drill bit to drill all the way through the stone wall to the inside and it also burn out his drill so had to buy another one.

Sorry but simple jobs might appear simple by they are more often far from it, also Professionals do jobs on a daily basis and have a dam good idea what can go wrong and how to fix it, DIYers only do jobs every so often with little daily experience.

Both XHs were useless at DIY and wouldn't even try. But DP is amazing, thank god.

However- he does have a slight tendency to think that all DIY tasks can be completed in one day. Fine for putting up a couple of shelves, not so fine for, say, plasterboarding an entire extension.

But as I'm also a very competent DIYer everything usually gets done in good time 😁

If it's that easy, do it yourself then!

Absolutely this. Partner rages at setting up IKEA furniture, so I recently extended the toddler bed myself. All went well but he came upstairs after it was done and instead raged at the rearranging of furniture.
Rearranged it myself (as I'd intended) after he'd finally given up and stormed off.