...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

[MasterBeth]

It doesn't make sense to me.

Some people say teachers don't get paid over the holidays. They are paid, they say, for 40 weeks, but their money is aggregated over 52 weeks and paid monthly.

What does that even mean? How is it (practically) any different to being paid (less per week) for 52 weeks?

Yes. It's just semantics. And they get shit loads of holidays.

But they do work bloody hard!

Or give us all more holidays!!!

You mean give you all unpaid leave.

It's very simple.

They get paid for, say 10 months, but that total amount for 10 months is split over 12 months. So they do't get paid over the holidays, technically.

So, using random figures: paid £120 per month for 10 months = £1200 paid over 12 months in 12 equal monthly salary payments = £100 per month

They're underpaid, basically, for the work they do.

It's more than semantics though. It's important to understand because as pp have said, teachers 15 years in are way behind graduate peers in many careers in terms of pay.

I know people respond to that by talking about people they know who work harder/ are more qualified / more impactful but in general it's a fact.

So we have more days off - if we really were paid FOR our holidays we would be worth very little.

And the upside is we don't have to pay loads of childcare for our own families in the holidays!

How are you way behind graduate peers after 15 years? I am an LA Ed psych.

Outside London upper end of standard pay scale is 46500 odd as of September. If you go into leadership or headship, pay is higher.

Ed psychs (not in management) earn 52 k or up to 57k if they can prove their excellence and get additional points. We have to do at least 7 years training and usually longer. We also work a 48 week year not a 39 week year as this whole thread has insisted teachers are not paid for their extra weeks of holiday (and yes I know, as a former teacher, that you work some of the holidays). So week by week you are earning more or at least as much as an EP who has done an additional doctorate degree, surely?

I think most public sector graduate workers earn similar ball park amounts. Nurses, police, youth workers.

I mean we can all look at office workers in London and get envious at the pay. (I mean I don't, because I don't want that lifestyle and I like my public service pension). But then there are factory workers, supermarket workers, care workers, nursery teachers, people in bar or hotel work who look at our salaries and probably feel envious. I don't get it. Nobody forced you to teach. Go and be an office worker if that's what you envy.

Correct

What %-age of schools are still LA maintained. Aren't most Academies now?

My school is LA maintained.

£46, 500 sounds great, but unfortunately UPS3 is unobtainable for most teaching staff. It should be for more experienced teachers but in the last three schools I have worked in no one is on it and only a couple are on UPS1 and usually have to do on a responsibility such as maths and English. Earlier in my career TLRs were given for these but as budgets have been squeezed this only seems to happen in larger schools. This is primary I’m referring to , I think secondary is probably better paid in this respect .

I never say my pay is more but I’ve been teaching nearly 20 years and would say for the first ten years amongst my non teaching peers I held my own salary wise but most now out earn me considerably.

well yes, of course. I’m trying to figure out the bit about part time teachers getting 100% of the holiday.

Think of some of the holidays as school closure, rather than a person's holiday allowance.

So a PT teacher gets all of the school closure days.
Part of this is their pro-rata holiday allowance. The rest is their school closure days.

In most schools, ime, bank holidays etc are not given as pro rata - they are when school is closed. If you are PT and work on a bank holiday day, you don't go in. If you are PT and don't work the bank holiday day, then you are still off but you don't get time back for that day, or another day off at another time

Difference is between For and over.

Teachers are paid for 195 days a year. That money is paid in 12 equal payments so they get paid over the holidays.

They don't get paid annual leave, so don't over paid for the holidays.

No, we don’t get paid holidays, and we don’t accrue holiday pay (say, when on maternity leave, for example).

What a helpful response!

I didn't go to school (well I did between 7 and 13 at about 50% attendance - traveller family). So yeah no opinion really other than finding the complaining a bit irritating. I think it's just the lack of recognition that other professions are also tough. I mean my clients are incredibly demanding and so are the seniors in my job and since qualifying, I've worked incredibly long hours. So it does grate a bit when teachers act like they're in the toughest job in the world. I don't think it's easy, not at all! But at the same time it's not harder than many other jobs

Outside London upper end of standard pay scale is 46500 odd as of September.

I think you are deluded if you think UPS3 is widespread or easy to get onto any more! Nobody is UPS2/3 now in my school. There are a couple on 1-everyone else is trapped on MPS and no TLRs are given. We aren’t even allowed supply as the budget is so poor-all teacher absence is covered by TAs (no HLTAs). Most subjects are shared out amongst the MPS staff and the deputy head pretty much has responsibility for everything else.

It’s like that advert that the DfE put out on the telly to recruit NQTs saying Great classroom teachers COULD make £65k or whatever it was. The advert got a tonne of complaints but it was upheld because there was a pay scale with it on. I don’t think they could find anyone in the country who actually earned this though.

@DrRuthGalloway as I said we all know people in jobs who don't earn more - usually public sector. I know Ed psychs who work privately and earn a lot more. I also know lots of people at the same stage as me in the private sector who earn far more than me and wouldn't consider a career in teaching because of the pay cut they would face.

So it does grate a bit when teachers act like they're in the toughest job in the world. I don't think it's easy, not at all! But at the same time it's not harder than many other jobs

I've never seen teachers do this though. Teachers explain what their day/job is like, then others jump in accusing teachers of complaining.

There is a recruitment and retention crisis in teaching, so perhaps the perceived complaining is valid.

I work in a school office and we get 12 equal payments a year but for 39 weeks work. If that makes sense?!

As with other other jobs, you accept your annual pay and benefits.
I have an office job. Earn £40k a year, get about £4k bonus. Get 25 days hols, buy another 3. Employer pays 5% into my pension.
My friend works as a teacher. Gets £40k a year. No bonus. Is contracted to teach 38 weeks a year. Puts in another 4 weeks non teaching time. The rest she counts as holiday. Gets a final salary pension as part of her deal.

My friend works as a teacher. Gets £40k a year. No bonus. Is contracted to teach 38 weeks a year. Puts in another 4 weeks non teaching time. The rest she counts as holiday. Gets a final salary pension as part of her deal.

God knows where she works then.

@zonder Well I am not a private EP as I don't agree with working only for parents who can afford to pay so that is my pay! That's like saying if you went to work in Dubai as a teacher you could earn more. It's true, but not relevant!

I am mid 50s and my husband earns over double what I do, working in the private sector. Until 29 we earned the same. I wouldn't consider what he does, he wouldn't consider what I do. I accept I get less pay than him because of the choices I make about where and how I want to work. Isn't that normal?

I don't understand why someone who wants to earn a six figure salary and work in an office would decide to become a teacher. We all know that isn't how it works in the public sector.

Yes but effectively you get your annual salary stated at your job interview. Like everyone else.

You accept the job or decline it. Like everyone else.

That annual salary gets paid to you in monthly increments. Like everyone else.

You get 12 weeks holiday. We get 5.

Thanks, @Takoneko - that makes sense.

I don’t think Ruth would agree with what you’re saying…

Same in the charity sector. Only we don't get the holidays/ final salary pensions.