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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want a ban on dangerous dogs as pets?

141 replies

humanity15 · 28/08/2023 20:05

I feel this is a matter of public safety and people need to be informed.

Whilst working for a well known dog rescue charity I was attacked by a breed banned in many countries, but not here.
Because it was not banned it was taken in just like any other dog.

My story can be found on youtube.

With many years of experience in the dog sector what I see happening on our streets right now is frightening.

Those advising the government on dangerous dogs are giving bad advice and as a result putting people's lives at risk.

People do not understand dogs, especially genetics. Because of this attacks will keep happening and people are going to get killed.

All dogs have inherited characteristics. Certain ones are stronger in certain breeds depending on what they were originally bred for.

Although all dogs can bite, there is a huge difference in why they bite and this unless understood could prove fatal.

To communicate a dog will often give signals. So if it feels uncomfortable with someone coming too close it may put its ears back, cower, tuck its tail in etc.
If these signs are ignored the dog may resort to biting as a last resort.
Once it has effectively communicated, with the person moving away it will stop.

This is totally different to a dog biting because it has been bred to fight and has a strong drive to do so.

This drive has been bred into certain breeds of dogs on purpose. How strong that drive will be different for every individual dog depending on what has been passed down.
No amount of good will is going to change this.
This is your starting point before any external influences.

Instead of breeding that instinct out what we are now seeing is the result of the opposite having been done.
Individual dogs that have shown high aggression have been bred from resulting in literally ticking timebombs now out on our streets.

No amount of cute photos or affection will change this.
No dog trainer or behaviourist no matter how good can do anything because this is in the dogs genes.
All that can be done is for this instinct to be surpressed, it cannot be removed.
At some point under certain circumstances it will come out.

If you have a dog with a high drive to fight you could be in serious trouble and so can anyone who encounters that dog.

When it takes sometimes five people and tazers to get a dog off someone that is serious.

  • This is what people are not being told but what they need to know.

Dogs are not good or bad, they just are.

Just because a dog brings you something because it was bred to retrieve does not make it bad.
This is the same for a dog bred to fight. It is doing what we have basically programmed it to do.
The fact we see one instinct as acceptable and one not is not the dogs fault, it is ours.
We are the ones who have brought both these dogs into our homes and labelled them as pets.
Certain dogs should never have been expected to fulfil this role.

Dogs are not morally driven, they will not sit and contemplate what they are about to do they just react.

They have the mental age of a toddler, a young child at best.

It is so important we understand and remember this to keep everyone safe.

https://youtu.be/mHREm4pO-CI?feature=shared

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
humanity15 · 31/08/2023 12:23

The whole system needs reforming.
Already the government are looking at certain countries and what they have in place.

  • Regulated, licenced breeders only ones allowed to breed
  • Puppies microchiped so they can be traced back to source
  • Acceptable breed list
  • Catagories for breeds
  • Harsher penalties with strick enforcement
  • Public education around dog breeds and body language

There are far too many serious attacks, lives being lost, dogs being killed and the amount of rescue centres we have in this country is a disgrace.

If you look at America the problem is out of hand at the moment. Other countries manage dogs completely differently.
We can learn from these places and overhaul the way we manage dogs here.

There is alot that can be done, it just takes the will power to make it happen.

OP posts:
enchantedsquirrelwood · 31/08/2023 16:57

elifont · 31/08/2023 04:25

How do you enforce breed bans when most dogs are crosses now. Loads of people I know with dogs they're all imported from Romania and they are put up for adoption without a clue what breed they are, they're just classed as mixed.

I'd have thought the solution to that would be to ban rescues from overseas. No doubt that would cause an outcry but don't we have enough animals of our own to look after?

Oh god I sound like someone trying to argue against taking migrants. But dogs ARE different to humans.

RunningFromInsanity · 31/08/2023 17:28

Cognitivedisonance · 31/08/2023 10:00

@Cherrysoup perhaps the answer is dog licences and approved breeds for households then? Small/ medium non muscular/ soft bite dogs for urban households only. Then working breeds are available on a different licence to people that can actually justify having them. It would mean complete eradication of the pit bull type dog, and the only people with guardian and mastiff breeds will be livestock farmers and mountain rescue teams or whatever. In my opinion, if you’re not under threat of being attacked by lions/ wolves/ bears then the only reason to have a powerful dog is with the intent it might harm another human on your behalf which makes it a weapon, just like a knife or gun.

and @Crapsummer2023

With your suggestions, I assume Great Danes, St Bernard’s, Old English Sheepdogs etc are also banned as family pets then?

For what it’s worth I agree that no family needs a cane corso or mastiff as a pet.
Just wondering where the line is drawn as you’ll have to have a specific list of allowed/not allowed breeds, and does that not just repeat the mistake/inadequacy of the Dangerous Dogs banned breed list?

Kpo58 · 31/08/2023 17:40

There is no point banning a breed of dog as there is always another that can be bred bad traits into. Ban bully dogs, then they may go for Shepard dogs that are bred for guarding livestock from wolves or hunting dogs such as the Rhodesian Ridgeback which are used for hunting lions or bred spaniels that are prone to cocker rage with something bigger.

ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor · 31/08/2023 17:42

I’ve just read a post where a 10 year old was mauled by a French bulldog, he was protecting his two year old brother. I wouldn’t have said a French bulldog was a dangerous breed so where do you draw the line@humanity15

Sarvanga38 · 31/08/2023 17:48

ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor · 31/08/2023 17:42

I’ve just read a post where a 10 year old was mauled by a French bulldog, he was protecting his two year old brother. I wouldn’t have said a French bulldog was a dangerous breed so where do you draw the line@humanity15

Obviously this shouldn't have happened, and perhaps it would have been worse for the younger child if the older brother hadn't been there, we will never know - however, if all the Daily Mail can come up with is a photo of four puncture wounds, I think it's clear that is not what is being discussed here.

ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor · 31/08/2023 19:06

@Sarvanga38 I actually read the story on the BBC news but I think this is exactly the point.

Dogs can snap at any point at any point regardless of breed.

humanity15 · 02/09/2023 01:14

One minute video, no sound because its not needed.

Inherited characteristics is what makes breeds different from one another.
Every individual will have a different level of drive depending on what has been passed down.

Genetics - puppies

https://youtu.be/cthqRAZchrI?feature=shared

OP posts:
IndiaWillyboy · 02/09/2023 01:22

Soubriquet · 28/08/2023 20:27

Banning breeds doesn’t work. A dog isn’t nasty and unpredictable due to a breed.

Except breed - genetics - has a massive influence on behaviour.

Every word OP wrote is true.

You wouldn’t be shocked at a collie wanting to herd - at a collie LOVING to herd because they’ve been selectively bred to find it the most enjoyable thing ever.

Ditto a husky running or a terrier digging.

Dogs bred to fight ENJOY IT and will seek out that experience because they’ve been bred for it.

Pretending that “It’s all in how you raise them” just shows people’s ignorance.

humanity15 · 02/09/2023 02:44

GAMENESS
This trait is what makes a good fighting dog.
It is purposely bred into them, as can be seen in dogs used in illegal fighting rings over here.
These dogs have a high drive to fight.
They do not need to be trained to do it as this drive is someting they are born with.

This is what sets them apart from other dogs and makes them incredibly dangerous.

  • They will ignore appeasement behaviours from other dogs who do not want conflict and attack them anyway.
  • They have a high pain threshold. Despite often suffering severe injury to themselves they do not stop.
  • They have no off switch and will fight till their opponent is no more.

The dictionary will describe gameness as:
Fighting spirit; courage or resolution; pluck.

Those who admire dogs that show high gameness have described it as:
Willingness to self-sacrifice in order to achieve an objective.

Whatever your view of dogs who have this trait what really needs to be questioned is:
Are these dogs safe to be walking our streets?

(Images from wikipedia).

To want a ban on dangerous dogs as pets?
To want a ban on dangerous dogs as pets?
OP posts:
Greensleeves · 02/09/2023 02:47

Of course you're absolutely right. But you'll get lots of batshit doggie parents telling you chihuahuas are actually responsible for all the dead toddlers and ripped-off arms, and THEIR slavering barrel-chested monster is as soft as a brush.

humanity15 · 02/09/2023 03:59

The American Bully - Genetics

What is most troubling about the American Bully is when you look into its ancestry.

These dogs have only been brought into this country recently, therefore there is only a small number of dogs that have been used for breeding here.

The website Bullywatch has tracked the lineage of these dogs and the results are very worrying.
A significant number of offspring from human/aggressive dogs are being used for breeding here.

The website is very informative. I would urge anyone wanting changes of any kind made to the dangerous dogs act to take a look.

Breed Genetics

There are three key facts about the American Bully They are Pitbulls: Analysing each pedigree shows that the American Bully is a Pitbull on paper. We believe it is essentially a Pitbull sub-breed, …

https://bullywatch.link/breed-genetics/

OP posts:
junbean · 02/09/2023 04:33

Two of my friends’ kids have been attacked by a breed that should be banned. One of the children did not survive, the other is permanently disfigured. My neighbors have two of this breed and they are never leashed, even though it’s a law where we live. My kids and I are scared to go outside when they’re out. Anytime the subject comes up publicly the fans of this breed are so incredibly loud and unnaturally defensive of it. I don’t understand why, given all the evidence they are just too dangerous.

3ormoredogs · 02/09/2023 06:32

I find it really bizarre. Like some sort it bully cult.

A friend of mine had one, it was horrible to everyone and everything. She had to walk it in the dead of night muzzled and moaned constantly about how people hated the dog and it was vilified (justifiably?) It was constantly ill with allergies and skin disease yet it could barely be examined by a vet because they had to sedate it to look at it.

Anyway it died a young death and she immediately replaced it with another one. It behaved exactly the same as the last despite her training it within an inch of its life (positively I might add, she’s not an aggressive chav just a normal middle aged dare I say middle class woman!) this is a dog living with small children too. All of the hundreds of breeds in the world and you can’t find one you like that isn’t bred and genetically programmed to maul other animals to death?

I’ve had breeds people dislike, there’s good reasons that every person shouldn’t own a big strong dog. Why do people want to encourage people to take a dog they probably can’t handle by using terms like ‘nanny dog’ etc? Just tell the truth and maybe people will make better choices.

Tara336 · 02/09/2023 06:59

I have had dogs a long time, one of my dogs was attacked (thank fully not badly) by a bull breed. The owner had it muzzled and on lead walking into local woods, I had seen the dog before and she alway had to cross the road if she saw other dog walkers so she knew it was reactive.

On this particular day I saw her walking into the woods and as usual dog was muzzled and on lead, I decided to walk in the opposite direction any way and let my very gentle dog off lead, he was just in front of me sniffing when out of nowhere the bull breed ran at him and knocked him off his feet, the lead was off and so was the muzzle (apparently owner thought it cruel to keep it on all the time and removed it if she thought no other dogs around) the bull breed ran at my dog a second time who was winded and trying to get up, I without hesitation hooked my foot under the staff and booted it away from my dog and the owner ran and grabbed it, if I hadn't done that it would have had my dog by the throat as that was where it was heading.

A close family member has a staff he is old and very sweet with people but we have to phone or text her to advise we will be visiting DM and make sure she doesn't visit with her dog as he is not safe around other dogs and would attack mine without hesitation.

I take my youngest dog to training classes someone attends with a staff (obviously trying to be decent responsible owners) he is becoming well trained BUT when we practice off lead work the trainers stand ready to protect everyone else's dogs and he has run at mine before now and had to be stopped. If our dogs are off lead in the class the trainers have to stand in front of the staff in case ours run towards it.

I know a lovely lady who delivers parcels to us and we chat a lot as she loves dogs and mine always greet her now as they know her, she has a staff. I came across her in the local woods the other day with my dogs who were pleased to see her, she had was walking her staff and panicked and shouted to me her dog would attack mine if they went near her, obvcalled mine back and put them straight on lead but she was clearly worried and having to hold her dog back. Later I saw her as she was getting the dog wiped down before putting it back in the car to go home and she said it would even accept a treat and a stroke and would probably try and bite me!

All nice people, not thugs in hoodies and all have the same problem they have chosen a breed that can't be trusted with other people or other dogs, it's not how I would want to live, constantly having to be alert in case my dog attacks someone else or their pets. They love their dogs as much as anyone else does that goes without question but unfortunately as a previous poster said all dogs were bred for a purpose and it is in the DNA of some breeds to attack and they don't have a place in today's society.

Bagwyllydiart · 02/09/2023 07:03

I would go further and ban all dogs from private ownership, apart from working or service dogs.

WinterFireJanuaryEmbers · 02/09/2023 08:23

Bingo! I call Bingo! Anyone else? Grin

OP posts:
enchantedsquirrelwood · 06/09/2023 13:50

Bagwyllydiart · 02/09/2023 07:03

I would go further and ban all dogs from private ownership, apart from working or service dogs.

But then people would probably find something else objectionable and dangerous to have instead, like snakes!

Grin

probably a case of being careful what you wish for

WanderingWitches · 06/09/2023 14:03

Good god thats absolutely horrific
That poor woman
Something has to happen. Those dogs are lethal.

EasternStandard · 06/09/2023 14:06

IndiaWillyboy · 02/09/2023 01:22

Except breed - genetics - has a massive influence on behaviour.

Every word OP wrote is true.

You wouldn’t be shocked at a collie wanting to herd - at a collie LOVING to herd because they’ve been selectively bred to find it the most enjoyable thing ever.

Ditto a husky running or a terrier digging.

Dogs bred to fight ENJOY IT and will seek out that experience because they’ve been bred for it.

Pretending that “It’s all in how you raise them” just shows people’s ignorance.

Edited

This and yanbu op

Stormydayagain · 06/09/2023 14:10

I know this won't be popular but...

I'd like to see a data analyse of what percentage of attacks resulting in death or serious injury are by intact male dogs (regardless of breed). If it turns out that my hypothesis that most of these attacks are by intact males is correct, then it would make more sense to ban ownership of intact males over a certain age, unless owned by a registered and qualified breeders and muzzled at all times in public.

Easy to spot/ report anyone not following the rules and would restrict breeding of dogs and make it more ethical.

OP posts:
3ormoredogs · 06/09/2023 15:52

Why does anyone want a dog that looks like that 🤦‍♀️

TempName247 · 06/09/2023 16:18

They are terrifying, I am seeing them more and more, I hope to god they get banned as I worry so much for my children coming into contact with such dogs. Other breeds should probably be banned as well but the XL bully in particular is an absolute beast.