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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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So is formula milk UPF?

415 replies

bumgripes · 28/08/2023 10:07

It is, right? I mean, the ingredients list certainly is. And it’s listed on the BBC website as an UPF.

Going to be interested to see if this influences the BF/FF debate now that it looks like awareness of UPF is about to skyrocket. Does it even matter when they’re only on it for about a year? Does that fact that it’s an UPF actually add any info to the pre-existing evidence on BF/FF?

OP posts:
Parker231 · 28/08/2023 15:56

Unusualactualname · 28/08/2023 15:51

The differences between FF and BF can be seen at a population level, not individual. What you describe is anecdote, not data.

I’m only interested in how my DC’s are fed - it’s up to everyone else to make their own decisions. Thank goodness Mn wasn’t around when I decided to use formula.

Iam4eels · 28/08/2023 15:56

Banning advertising/promotion of formula, preventing maternity wards from providing it, not allowing midwives/health visitors to give information on formula feeding, etc has done very little to promote breastfeeding or increase the breastfeeding rate.

Pretending formula doesn't exist and treating it like a dirty little secret helps no one. Women aren't idiots, we know how to make decisions and we have bodily autonomy, we should be given the unadorned facts on both feeding methods and given necessary support with whichever one we choose.

I remember when I had DC1 and the HV came to do her third trimester introductory visit. She gave me a leaflet about BF and also gave me a leaflet about FF, the FF leaflet was photograph instructions on how to safely make up a bottle and how to safely sterilise them. She asked me to please not tell the midwife she'd given me it as she would get in trouble but she wanted to make sure that everyone had all of the information they might need for both options rather than just one side of the information.

GreyGrid · 28/08/2023 16:02

My youngest is 1. My midwives and HV all recommend FF to me for my particular circumstances even before birth. They still gave me complete support postnatally when I was determined to try BF, but soon advised me to FF instead. This is anecdotal but not all HV and midwives keep FF a dirty secret.

cantkeepawayforever · 28/08/2023 16:09

Unknownwhere · 28/08/2023 15:04

What are the risks of UPF? There’s only one way to find out of formula is a problematic d that’s to do a very long term study. Ask everyone attending any medical appt for anything how they were fed and then also have a study group that are followed up closely for many years.
People often say ‘oh in a class of 30 there’s no difference you wouldn’t know who was ff or bf’ but actually are there differences we can’t see ? Maybe it’s time to stop being non specific and research should be funded to see if formula being an upf is detrimental?

That is not a study to see formula being a UPF is detrimental, though.

It would be - if very carefully carried out with careful control of all other variables - a study of ff vs bf as a whole.

To investigate the effect of ‘UPFness’, you would gave to compare bf vs UPF formula vs non-UPF (but otherwise as identical as possible ) formula. That isn’t possible, because non-UPF formula doesn’t exist, and ‘simpler’ baby food formulations such as diluted cows’ milk plus sugar are so obviously inferior nutritionally that it is not a fair - or indeed ethical - test.

Greetingsfellows · 28/08/2023 16:29

@Cowlover89 I'm delighted for you that you were able to BF and that you're proud of the fact you did. However, do you get that comments like that imply that women who can't (and don't) BF should feel ashamed? Or that you are better than them? Why and how does what you did affect what someone else does for THEIR child? (Other than making you feel massively superior that something so 'natural' worked for you?)

Before I had my DS I did a BF class to get top tips as I was so determined to do it. The woman (health professional) running the course was definitely part of your crew and commented during the course that no one would not be able to BF and she would be at the hospital when we had our babies to get it all up and running smoothly. I had a friend who had recently given birth and her mental health had suffered whilst trying to BF so had moved to FF. She had historically had mental health issues and attempted suicide but it had been under control for many years. Even so, I couldn't help but think how awful a comment like that would have made her feel and said so. (Clearly this woman thought BF should be at the expense of the mother's mental health. Great, a child gets BF but their mother commits suicide after a few months leaving no other choice.) Anyway, I was reassured that at least there would be support to get BF working if there were any issues.

Anyway, when I gave birth vaginally, I missed out on initial skin to skin as I was unconscious due to blood loss. Baby was in special care due to breathing issues and was therefore meant to have breathing assistance which made things harder once I regained consciousness.

Whilst in special care, I attempted BF and he latched but badly. I tried all the tips from the course I had done but no improvement. One midwife tried to help me improve his latch on one of her shifts but it wasn't improving. (No sign of the judgemental health professional I'd done the BF course with the whole time he was in hospital btw.) He'd feed furiously for maybe 50 minutes at a time and then want feeding again 20 minutes later. I went with what he needed.

After 8 days he'd lost 20% of his birth weight and I was so upset. He was poorly and all I could do to help was feed him. And apparently what I was doing wasn't enough to even help him maintain his weight. I was beside myself with worry and in tears constantly. The lead midwife then 'helpfully' demanded to know why he wasn't being given formula and essentially told me I needed to be more responsible and get my child fed. I was made to feel like I was neglecting my child (even though this was the first time we'd been told that he'd lost weight).

I was given the choice of going to bottles or giving my child formula through a tube as I continued to try to BF. I hated the idea of him having the tube but we went with it to continue to support BF (as recommended by the course). Once he was deemed well enough to go home, having regained his lost weight, I continued to BF. When the midwife visited 5 days later, he'd lost 15% of the weight he'd been when he left hospital. She told me in no uncertain terms to continue BF (as that was my choice) but to supplement with formula to ensure he was getting enough. No tubes available at home so onto bottles having taken the medical advice from the people who are supposed to know best.

Once out of hospital, I asked for support from midwives, HVs and by contacting support groups. No one was actually willing to watch my child feeding and to help work out what was going wrong. Covid had an impact on what support was available. I had a massive breakdown one day and commented that I'd happily feed my child liquid gold if that was what it took. I just wanted him to be healthy and thriving.

Supplementing his feeding with the bottle made everything worse as he then didn't WANT to BF and would start screaming within a couple of minutes of starting to feed and would refuse to latch.

Eventually, I allowed him to FF to help him thrive. I continued to express milk (3/4 hourly) for him for 12 months but it didn't cover anywhere near what he needed. I was criticised for expressing for 12 months too. I was told he was 'too old' for milk. My nipples are scarred from the constant pumping that I did.

I genuinely feel like I did everything I could to BF my child but he suffered and because he suffered, I suffered.

As I said, I'm delighted for you that you were able to do it and are proud that your body did that for your child. But just know (and I have no doubt that you'll get a kick from this) that your comments and comments like it make me feel like I have something to be ashamed of, that I should be ashamed of my body and that I let my child down. Bully for you. You also had luck on your side and you'd do well to remember it.

Twizbe · 28/08/2023 16:43

@Greetingsfellows im really sorry you had such a hard time with your baby and I’m pleased that he’s doing well now.

However, it’s ok for another women to have breastfed and to celebrate that. It doesn’t take away from any of your achievements nor does it reflect on you. You are unconnected individuals dealing with your own circumstances. I’m sure there’s something you can do that other posters can’t.

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 16:46

@Greetingsfellows if that's how you want to take it from my comments, go ahead. I'm allowed to be proud. It doesn't mean I'm being superior to the ones that couldn't breastfeed. I'm not going to feel like I can't express myself or worry that I'm going to upset someone. It's not my intention.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/08/2023 16:56

Continuing to do something when you have been explicitly told it's liable to upset other people when they're at a particularly vulnerable point in life isn't anything to be proud of though. It may not seem rational to you, it may not be your intent, but unfortunately one persons pride can amplify another's shame.

ATerrorofLeftovers · 28/08/2023 16:56

The thing that always strikes me on these threads is why it is that some women are so obsessed with how other women feed their babies. And are invested enough to opine and tear down other women.

I mean, why?

Why be so invested in how somebody else, unconnected to you, feeds their child?

Why be such a busybody? And why do these busybodies almost always fixate on mode of feeding or mode of birth? Rather than other aspects of childcare and child development?

It’s like they’re desperate to ensure women suffer as much as possible. Or they have anxiety issues that are so obsessive they spill over from concern for their own children and get projected onto the children of others. Some are clearly in the sway of unresolved trauma from their own feeding journey and are playing that out on these threads, rather than work it through in therapy (which would be far more beneficial for both them and others). But surely those can’t be the only reasons? What motivates it?

It’s really, really odd, IMO. And not very nice.

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:02

ErrolTheDragon · 28/08/2023 16:56

Continuing to do something when you have been explicitly told it's liable to upset other people when they're at a particularly vulnerable point in life isn't anything to be proud of though. It may not seem rational to you, it may not be your intent, but unfortunately one persons pride can amplify another's shame.

Well in that case people might as well keep their opinions to themselves 🤷‍♀️ we all get upset by something that someone's said. That's life but I'm not going to stop. And I'm not going to let anyone take it away from me. To make me feel bad. It's certainly wasn't my fault why some can't breastfeed. I will continue to be proud and not be made to feel ashamed for doing so.

Darhon · 28/08/2023 17:03

There are clearly UPFs that are ok for health. Weetabix, non-sugary cereals, baby milk. It’s fine. We’ve got enough evidence babies thrive on it. It’s fortified and carefully balanced in terms of fats and sugars.

It’s the crap without balance that causes the issues, along with a generally obesogenic society - less exercise, central heating, high availability of cheap, long lasting UPFs.

Rockytits · 28/08/2023 17:03

I would like to defend UPFs. Yesterday I had a Cornish pasty and a mr whippy ice cream at the beach with chocolate sauce and it was the best day ever.

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:05

Rockytits · 28/08/2023 17:03

I would like to defend UPFs. Yesterday I had a Cornish pasty and a mr whippy ice cream at the beach with chocolate sauce and it was the best day ever.

I love a cornish pasty 😋

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:05

Rockytits · 28/08/2023 17:03

I would like to defend UPFs. Yesterday I had a Cornish pasty and a mr whippy ice cream at the beach with chocolate sauce and it was the best day ever.

I also love your username 🤣

Mysteriousgirl2 · 28/08/2023 17:06

NeverDropYourMooncup · 28/08/2023 11:35

Yes, it is. As TPN would be. And lactose free milk. And gluten free foods.

It's one of the reasons why UPFs being demonised is such a shitty way to operate - it appeals to people who attach moral value to dietary choices and weight, but doesn't actually represent what is actually needed; food that is affordable and appropriate nutritionally for all sectors of the population.

And gluten free foods. Pardon?

An apple is gluten free. So is spinach. You need to phrase your writing more accurately.

ATerrorofLeftovers · 28/08/2023 17:09

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:02

Well in that case people might as well keep their opinions to themselves 🤷‍♀️ we all get upset by something that someone's said. That's life but I'm not going to stop. And I'm not going to let anyone take it away from me. To make me feel bad. It's certainly wasn't my fault why some can't breastfeed. I will continue to be proud and not be made to feel ashamed for doing so.

You know, it’s fine to be proud, if this is what counts as the pinnacle of achievement for you. We’re all different, and if this is it for you, then great, make the most of it.

What posters take issue with is the need to trumpet it online, when you know it upsets some posters. Why are you doing that? What is the benefit to you and others of posting repeatedly about how proud you are that you were able to breastfeed?

Parker231 · 28/08/2023 17:16

Rockytits · 28/08/2023 17:03

I would like to defend UPFs. Yesterday I had a Cornish pasty and a mr whippy ice cream at the beach with chocolate sauce and it was the best day ever.

Now I’m seriously jealous!

RosieS22 · 28/08/2023 17:17

@ATerrorofLeftovers so it's ok for a number of people to share their experience about how they struggled or were not able to BF, but not for another poster to share that they feel proud that they were able to BF?
I'm sorry but that's hardly fair. It's a forum.

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:21

ATerrorofLeftovers · 28/08/2023 17:09

You know, it’s fine to be proud, if this is what counts as the pinnacle of achievement for you. We’re all different, and if this is it for you, then great, make the most of it.

What posters take issue with is the need to trumpet it online, when you know it upsets some posters. Why are you doing that? What is the benefit to you and others of posting repeatedly about how proud you are that you were able to breastfeed?

I'm not going to listen to petty bollocks. If you want to take it that way. Good for you.

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:25

RosieS22 · 28/08/2023 17:17

@ATerrorofLeftovers so it's ok for a number of people to share their experience about how they struggled or were not able to BF, but not for another poster to share that they feel proud that they were able to BF?
I'm sorry but that's hardly fair. It's a forum.

I know right. You can't win either way. Doesn't matter what you say. There's always going to be someone to nit pick at you.

Twizbe · 28/08/2023 17:29

This is why no one ever shares positive breastfeeding or childbirth stories. You just get accused of bragging etc.

Let’s not silence women. We are allowed to talk about our emotions both positive and negative.

Parker231 · 28/08/2023 17:29

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:25

I know right. You can't win either way. Doesn't matter what you say. There's always going to be someone to nit pick at you.

Usually it mothers who have bf criticising those of us who chose to use formula as making a 2nd rate decision and being selfish.

ItstimeToMoveagain · 28/08/2023 17:34

People not wanting to hear the smugness doesn't mean they are trying to make you feel ashamed 🤣🤣

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:40

Parker231 · 28/08/2023 17:29

Usually it mothers who have bf criticising those of us who chose to use formula as making a 2nd rate decision and being selfish.

Haha alrighty then. I've seen formula fed criticising breastfeeding mams too, and the ones who couldn't breastfeed.

Cowlover89 · 28/08/2023 17:40

Twizbe · 28/08/2023 17:29

This is why no one ever shares positive breastfeeding or childbirth stories. You just get accused of bragging etc.

Let’s not silence women. We are allowed to talk about our emotions both positive and negative.

Yep and exactly. I will not be silenced.

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