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Shirley Valentine

63 replies

Sallyh87 · 27/08/2023 21:13

I saw this movie when I was 18 and did not get it. I am now a 35 year old mother and this movie is really speaking to me. Is this a sign I am now very very old in spirit?

OP posts:
JoeLovesGina · 27/08/2023 22:23

@Chowtime I think it was on Channel 5 today so might be on catch-up?

SprinkleOfSunak · 27/08/2023 22:27

I totally adore this film, and I always have done since I watched it when I was a child. I always have to watch it if I see it coming on the television.

wisherwasher · 27/08/2023 22:29

I've always loved this film, ever since I was a kid. I'm 40.

FMLWTF · 27/08/2023 22:33

I love Shirley Valentine. Such a poignant film. In fact I was thinking about it only last week as I was swimming in the sea early one morning off a Greek island while my family slept… and wondering how I’d feel if they flew home and left me there Grin

fabmaccawhackythumbsaloft · 27/08/2023 22:38

It was ch 5 today but they cut the scene where she turns to camera and says "so t men talk shit " and I cannot fathom why

Screamingabdabz · 27/08/2023 22:43

senua · 27/08/2023 21:52

I'm never been overly keen on Shirley Valentine, which was written by Willy Russell.
It always felt like mansplaining.

Interesting point. I saw the ending again today and it made me think that the film’s message would actually speak more to men (if only they’d watch it). The kind of men who ‘never understand’ women. The film’s ending is very kind to its misogynist male characters.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/08/2023 22:49

It's a fantastic film, one of the greats.

But.... it's bloody well "egg and chips"! Not "chips and egg".

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/08/2023 22:53

Aside from the "chips and egg" business, the other thing that annoys me is that the bright girl from her school went on to be a prostitute.

That scene would have worked perfectly well even if she had gone on to be an accountant, doctor etc. Making her a prostitute was a weird choice for that character and smacks of putting clever, articulate girls and women in their place. God forbid that she'd have used her education.

BIossomtoes · 27/08/2023 22:56

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/08/2023 22:53

Aside from the "chips and egg" business, the other thing that annoys me is that the bright girl from her school went on to be a prostitute.

That scene would have worked perfectly well even if she had gone on to be an accountant, doctor etc. Making her a prostitute was a weird choice for that character and smacks of putting clever, articulate girls and women in their place. God forbid that she'd have used her education.

That’s an interesting interpretation in light of Russell’s other work.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/08/2023 22:58

I don't have any issues with Russell's work more generally, but that one scene has never sat right with me.

It's a bizarre choice for that character. How usual was it for the brightest girl in school, who went on to do A levels, to become a prostitute? Not very.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/08/2023 23:00

Oh, obviously she is very much a (mythical) 'belle du jour' style 'happy hooker', but again - what message is that intending to send?

Writers don't make decisions about their characters by accident. There is intention behind it. So what was the intention?

ASoapImpressionOfHisWifeWhichHeAte · 27/08/2023 23:38

"I'm not saying she's a bragger, but if you've been to Paradise, she's got a season ticket. She's that type, Gillian, you know. If you've got a headache, she's got a brain tumour."

Genius.

NeverGuessWho · 27/08/2023 23:42

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/08/2023 22:58

I don't have any issues with Russell's work more generally, but that one scene has never sat right with me.

It's a bizarre choice for that character. How usual was it for the brightest girl in school, who went on to do A levels, to become a prostitute? Not very.

I agree that it was a bizarre choice, but my understanding of it is so that we can witness and share SV's utter shock, and her realisation that it wasn't only her (SV's) life that resulted in her losing a significant part of herself; that this can happen to people who we least expect.

Had the character become, for example, a solicitor, it would have been more realistic, but the message would have been lost.

It highlighted that sometimes, when we make assumptions about people we are far off the mark, and sometimes, when we look at our own lives, and expect other people to have "perfect" lives, that we can be wrong.

Obviously this film was pre-social media, but I could see that the scenes with Joanna Lumley have parallels with Facebook, for example: how on the surface, everyone has these perfect lives, and yet scratch the surface and it's often far from what it seems.

I think it worked well, if you look at it through Shirley Valentine's eyes, rather than through a 2023 lense.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 28/08/2023 09:16

NeverGuessWho · 27/08/2023 23:42

I agree that it was a bizarre choice, but my understanding of it is so that we can witness and share SV's utter shock, and her realisation that it wasn't only her (SV's) life that resulted in her losing a significant part of herself; that this can happen to people who we least expect.

Had the character become, for example, a solicitor, it would have been more realistic, but the message would have been lost.

It highlighted that sometimes, when we make assumptions about people we are far off the mark, and sometimes, when we look at our own lives, and expect other people to have "perfect" lives, that we can be wrong.

Obviously this film was pre-social media, but I could see that the scenes with Joanna Lumley have parallels with Facebook, for example: how on the surface, everyone has these perfect lives, and yet scratch the surface and it's often far from what it seems.

I think it worked well, if you look at it through Shirley Valentine's eyes, rather than through a 2023 lense.

Show quote history

That's a good take on it. Something to think about.

If the intention was to show that you never know what's going on beneath the surface, it makes more sense. Although could have been achieved in a different way?

For example - I love the way the Gillian character reacts when she finds out Shirley is going away, calling her "brave". It exposes the fact that Gillian's life isn't as perfect as you might think, that she is also trapped, without diminishing her in the way that Marjorie's character is.

It's possible that Marjorie's outcome was a comment on how it is impossible for women, no matter how educated, to escape the fact that men see them as sex objects. But I'm not sure that is how it's portrayed.

ISeeMisledPeople · 28/08/2023 09:21

Sigmama · 27/08/2023 21:49

the message is pretty clear what ever age surely

While I agree with you, the film definitely resonates with 50 year old me much more than it did when I first saw it, and I understand it in a more visceral way.

ISeeMisledPeople · 28/08/2023 09:27

senua · 27/08/2023 21:52

I'm never been overly keen on Shirley Valentine, which was written by Willy Russell.
It always felt like mansplaining.

Don't be dissing Willy Russell!! He once said something very compliments about something I wrote - he can do no wrong! 😉

ISeeMisledPeople · 28/08/2023 09:28

Chowtime · 27/08/2023 21:54

Where can I watch this for free? No netflix or amazon prime.

The last time I watched it, was on YouTube. It wasn't the best quality, but it was watchable. Might be worth trying.

FrenchandSaunders · 28/08/2023 09:33

She was supposed to be early 40s in this 😳

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 28/08/2023 09:38

Yes, both men and women aged much earlier (and had their families much earlier) in those days! You hit a certain age and adopted an age appropriate uniform. For women, house coat indoors, short hair etc.

BIossomtoes · 28/08/2023 09:39

Collins was 49 when the film was made.

WeLovePeaSoup · 28/08/2023 09:54

I watched it yesterday afternoon on Channel 5 while cooking dinner.
I loved it. It’s a second time I watched it and now I want to go to Greece and no I never talked to a wall.

silveryrose · 28/08/2023 10:00

No, I watched it in the early 90s, as a child, and got it. I thought the actress looked around 50, and apparently she was (49).

Yes, 'chips and egg' is wrong.

Marjorie, I also found it inexplicable that she wanted to waste her education on becoming an air hostess (not trying to denigrate the job to add!). Though it probably seemed like a glamorous career to Shirley, or perhaps in the 80s. The scene might have worked with a different profession, but no shock value.

The ending. I know it's ambiguous, but I think she leaves him, or rather hope that she does and creates a new life for herself. Not to return to him, though he now appreciates her...for a time (cynical). Sell the house and buy something in Greece.

Mmhmmn · 28/08/2023 10:01

LadyWhineglass · 27/08/2023 21:45

Bstard bloody Brexit means we can do a Shirley now if we wanted to.

What - go away to Greece? No fan of Brexit but I'm fairly sure that's still possible 😂

Mmhmmn · 28/08/2023 10:02

Chowtime · 27/08/2023 21:54

Where can I watch this for free? No netflix or amazon prime.

Try seeing if it's on BBC iPlayer. They have quite a few old films.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 28/08/2023 10:03

Marjorie, I also found it inexplicable that she wanted to waste her education on becoming an air hostess

My interpretation was that it was Shirley who desperately wanted to be an air hostess (travel, glamour etc.), so she had projected that desire on to Marjorie. They hadn't been friends at school, so Marjorie likely wouldn't have shared her plans/ambitions with Shirley.