Can't we just have cameras in school and hospitals?

[melon234]

Thinking about the Letby case more, wouldn't it make sense on certain wards to have 24h security cameras rolling? If people are doing their job properly there will be no concern. But if there was some sort of major issue like what happened in the letby hospital it would be used with notes to put together a picture of what happened. Children's wards and neonatal wards should have cameras on the beds/cots all the time.

I'm not looking to blame people for minor mishaps but more to get to the bottom of potentially "life ruining" events.

I think the same for schools. It would protect teachers mainly. There would be no word of a student against a teachers. Schools have become increasingly violent.

Absolutely still a no. I am a paediatric nurse and I don't want to be filmed doing my job thank you.

You really haven't thought this through have you.

I'm not sure you have any idea how bad hospital IT is - it wouldn't work even if it was a desirable thing.

How could I trust it wasn’t turned on. It’s unlikely they’d have 1 camera per bed. What if the woman next to me was ok and I wasn’t?

How easy would it be to turn off? Would the staff have the time to properly explain to patients and gain their consent? What if I wasn’t able to give consent?

My school can’t afford computers that attach to the Wi-Fi properly, let alone cctv cameras in every classroom/corridor. We can’t even afford books and glue, ffs-where would this extra money come from?!

No because I don’t trust that the cameras actually would be switched off or that some individual with malicious intent couldn’t switch them on/view footage anyway. I don’t want any cameras in the vicinity of my hospital bed, or my child’s.

The majority of problems in the nhs would be far better addressed by sufficient staffing not cameras.

And when it's hacked and released online?

@Greybeardy well that is a good point! And the cost.

I'd be slightly happier if there were two people doing jobs on neonatal ward so they can check each other and prevent mistakes/deliberate actions. But that will never happen die to cost.

I appreciate privacy but given what's gone on, surely there has to be a better/safer way of caring for very vulnerable patients.

So when this footage is inappropriately accessed and streamed to the internet? Are you still happy to have your vaginal exam filmed?
its not like we have a 100% track record in preventing data hacks. I think there’s less chance of me being murdered in hospital than there is of a cctv films being stolen/ inappropriately used.

Given we can't even get staffing levels in hospital they won't have funding for CCTV in every part either plus NHS systems have been hacked in the past there's always that possibility in the future.

I would not consent to my child being recorded they have a right to privacy as much as we do and children can feel very vulnerable in hospital just like adults.

I have faith what has happened with the neonatal case won't happen again, people will take concerns far more serious before something like that happened. If we are fearful of every NHS worker we will never feel safe if unwell and that's not good for anyone's mental health.

That used to happen- about 30 yrs ago when there was still enough staff around to do that. A lot of procedures that used to have 2 staff now only have 1 as there just isn’t enough trained staff in the country.

How is your proposal even remotely compatible with basic safeguarding or child protection practices?

This.

Optional would still be a massive resource suck, OP hasn't explained where the money or the staff to run this massive undertaking is going to come from, and given the piss poor quality of IT in the NHS generally why on earth would we trust it'd stay private?

I guess, I just don't believe that a single person should be able to be on a ward alone to do dangerous things to vulnerable babies with nobody noticing or nobody being able to check on the facts afterwards. Something is majorly wrong with that.

Cameras on every children's ward in the uk feels like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Let's not knee jerk react to the actions of one heinous individual, thankfully very rare.

Have we really reached the state where we dont trust anyone?

Would you like someone watching your every move?

You don't get to consent to that for other adults. They are entitled to privacy and dignity.

'A bit embarassed'...This is just odd. If you want to be watched then pay someone to do it. You don't get to shove your voyeuristic persuasions onto the rest of us.

Don’t forget as well @melon234 that concerns were raised much earlier than her arrest. Hospital bosses dismissed the claims and refused to investigate. Even if they’d had CCTV they were unlikely to access it to check.

I’m pretty sure more children are killed in their own homes by their parents/carers than in hospital by nurses.

So why don’t we make it mandatory to have cctv in all homes? Why because it’s ridiculous. No one would do it or pay for it.

This. Once the footage exists, it can be shared, hacked, or otherwise misused. No, that shouldn’t ever happen, but NHS IT is shit enough, and there have been enough bad apples seeking out NHS employment in order to gain access to vulnerable patients, that you’d be a fool to think it would never happen.

There was one hospital I worked in, about 10 years ago, where a patient’s son installed a nanny cam without our knowledge, to spy on her nursing care.

Unfortunately she then stepped down to a normal ward, and a further two strangers had their intimate care filmed and broadcast to this man. This was discovered when he attempted to retrieve the camera. The police were called, he was arrested, and as far as I know he was prosecuted.

Just mentioning this in case anyone reading this thread gets any ideas.

nursing Has enough of a retention and recruitment crisis without this

Well luckily I don't work for the nhs and I'm not a cctv camera sales person either but I am increasingly losing trust in the nhs for a variety of reasons. Not just the awful news but my own care and personal experience. I'd be very anxious if I was going into hospital now to give birth or if I had a newborn that needed care.

Injecting air is going to be very difficult to distinguish from flushing with water/saline (which is a normal, necessary part of line/NG tube care).

She wasn’t alone in NICU. There were other nurses around (one per patient). If she had smothered the babies they would have noticed. She was very careful to do things that look similar to normal nursing.

Child homicides are most commonly caused by the child’s parent or step-parent.
Source

Child homicides are most commonly (31%) perpetrated by the child’s parent or step-parent. Few homicides of those aged under 16 were committed by strangers.
Source

CCTV in homes to stop abusive parents and step parents would appear to be more useful , OP, considering how many children are murdered by their caregivers.

Also the people going on about privacy, it doesn't appear to be an issue when I was separated by a flimsy curtains that kept getting yanked open in the postnatal ward with other mums (and their partners) with my boob out whilst chatting about my piles. If privacy is so important in the nhs , why do we have open wards instead of proper rooms?