Page 12 | Karen advert

IncognitoMam · 2023-08-26T06:29:14+00:00

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit? I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

wayyour · 26/08/2023 12:10

Most people arguing it is a slur are... well
.. Karens. Calling it a slur to deflect off themselves

I spend a lot of time online. It's usage isn't to silence women but call ANYONE out for entitled behaviour.

I'm afraid that's not the only use and far from it. You should look at past threads here just for some examples. Old thread where school girls have been called Karens, but mostly it's ageism. It's been used to call out women who have been accused of being 'assertive' or 'bossy'. It certainly has been used to silence women and continues to be. Misogyny is not acceptable.

FutureThroughLensOfThePast · 26/08/2023 12:10

Baldieheid · 26/08/2023 12:08

Oh really?

Interesting. I bet they hate Stacy more than Chad.

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Yes - take a look on Reddit if you can bear going down that particular rabbit hole.

floribunda18 · 26/08/2023 12:12

Could you post the link rather than the photo, then we can all let the company know what we think of it.

WolfFoxHare · 26/08/2023 12:13

I’d say the nearest ‘catch-all’ term to describe/insult a middle-aged white (racist) reactionary man is ‘gammon’ but that’s not an actual name.

Lndnmummy · 26/08/2023 12:15

ElBandito · 26/08/2023 11:18

@DeeCee77
I'm flabbergasted that you don't get that we all understand what you are saying?

We know the origin of the word.

We know that in the UK the use of Karen as a term has evolved, been corrupted if you like, to refer to middle aged white women who complain about anything.

We don't approve of the way it is being used now in the UK.

But you're still complaining about us rather than the those, like the company in the advert, who are using it 'wrong'.

Why?

You can be flabbergasted all you like. The term is not always used 'wrong' in the UK. I have exclusively only heard it to describe white women who weaponise their privilege through tears against black men, women and children. Those racist incidents, are far far far more damaging than someone being referred to as a Karen.

I can not get worked up over that. It is impossible. I do get worked up over the Karens treatment of others.

Baldieheid · 26/08/2023 12:15

FutureThroughLensOfThePast · 26/08/2023 12:10

Yes - take a look on Reddit if you can bear going down that particular rabbit hole.

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I don't think I could handle that, sorry.

Incels give me the willies.

Baldieheid · 26/08/2023 12:17

Lndnmummy · 26/08/2023 12:15

You can be flabbergasted all you like. The term is not always used 'wrong' in the UK. I have exclusively only heard it to describe white women who weaponise their privilege through tears against black men, women and children. Those racist incidents, are far far far more damaging than someone being referred to as a Karen.

I can not get worked up over that. It is impossible. I do get worked up over the Karens treatment of others.

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So in the context of the advert right on the first post, how do you read that?

Are the medics in this case all black, and the patients all white women?

What does it actually mean here?

Moonwatcher1234 · 26/08/2023 12:20

TheaBrandt · 26/08/2023 11:21

It’s like the word gay. It used to mean one thing then the meaning changed over time. No quibble with Deecees interesting history lessons but in the uk the meaning of this term has evolved as described so well by the other women on this thread.

Read How To Stop Time by Matt Haig - each generation generates the same old issues in slightly different guises. Karen is this generation’s “burn the witch” attack on non conforming older women. YAWN

Is it for non-conforming older women though? I thought it was for those with a sense of entitlement and, tbh, whilst I understand the hurt felt by those called Karen and wouldn’t use it for that reason, I completely understand how it came about and the personality type that it captures

Lndnmummy · 26/08/2023 12:21

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 26/08/2023 11:51

It's not incorrect

Karen is used as a term for being obnoxious and rude.

I've seen plenty of people called out for using it wrong.

"They aren't being a Karen, they are right"

Most people arguing it is a slur are... well
.. Karens. Calling it a slur to deflect off themselves

I spend a lot of time online. It's usage isn't to silence women but call ANYONE out for entitled behaviour

Most people arguing it is a slur are... well
.. Karens. Calling it a slur to deflect off themselves

I have been wanting to type this all morning.🤣

IsadoraQuagmire · 26/08/2023 12:22

Lndnmummy · 26/08/2023 12:05

How on earth can it be irrelevant? Reading this thread alone and seeing, clear as day, the pile on towards @DeeCee77 clearly illustrates how heart breakingly relevant it is.

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It's irrelevant because this is a thread about the term being used, in a very different way to its original meaning, towards women of any colour. Misogyny.

SomeCatFromJapan · 26/08/2023 12:22

I have been wanting to type this all morning

Yes that doesn't suprise me.

BringMeTea · 26/08/2023 12:23

So much internalised misogyny and ageism on MN lately. So glad that mnhq will delete the use of this misogynistic and ageist slur.

ArabeIIaScott · 26/08/2023 12:24

MoreThanEnoughSoFar · 26/08/2023 11:50

I hate the way people use "Karen". It started out as a nickname for a racist woman who felt entitled to discriminate against other races, but it's now used to shut any girl or woman up who has an opinion. Other reason I'm against it: if you meet a racist woman, call her a racist and have it out. Don't diminish what she stands for with a cutesy nickname that taints everyone with that name.

Absolutely. Racism should be dealt with as the serious matter it is.

Suggesting any woman who complains about anything is the same as a racist is absurd and manages to downplay racism while simultaneously monstering and shaming women.

Saraooo · 26/08/2023 12:25

What is the whole Karen thing? Can someone enlighten me?

ImNotWorthy · 26/08/2023 12:25

My lovely MIL was called Karen.
Actually, this was not her given name, but one she chose (don't know why or when, but she was a WREN in WW II, might have been then).
It was based on her middle name, Kerr, which was a family surname.

I also have a lovely friend, whose parents actually did name her Karen.

This Karen nonsense has been offending me since it emerged into the mainstream a few years ago.

MorrisZapp · 26/08/2023 12:26

Saraooo · 26/08/2023 12:25

What is the whole Karen thing? Can someone enlighten me?

Google 'Karen meme'

ArabeIIaScott · 26/08/2023 12:27

Lndnmummy · 26/08/2023 12:21

Most people arguing it is a slur are... well
.. Karens. Calling it a slur to deflect off themselves

I have been wanting to type this all morning.🤣

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Are you complaining about women complaining?

wayyour · 26/08/2023 12:27

Most people arguing it is a slur are... well
.. Karens. Calling it a slur to deflect off themselves

"I have been wanting to type this all morning.🤣"

Well done you! Though someone says this on every 'Karen' thread on Mumsnet <ticks off bingo card> It's often men who have used the term, and in the real world, but some women do it too apparently, which is sad IMO.

DerekFaker · 26/08/2023 12:27

DeeCee77 · 26/08/2023 09:36

What's ironic is although the term Karen refers to a racist white american woman weaponising her white privilege, thus nothing to do with those who are not, your friends are displaying some of the Karen tropes (ie. self absorbed, complaining)...

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/05/coronavirus-karen-mem

"The term was popularized on Black Twitter as a meme used to describe white women who "tattle on Black kids' lemonade stands.

Their defining essence is “entitlement, selfishness, a desire to complain,” according to Heather Suzanne Woods, a meme researcher and professor at Kansas State University. A Karen “demands the world exist according to her standards with little regard for others, and she is willing to risk or demean others to achieve her ends.”

Yes, that's the origin of the term. But it's been expanded (in fact was expanded quite a while ago). Firstly to any woman wanting to complain to the manager about something - you MUST have seen all the Karen memes featuring this, they're not new.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=560318274&sxsrf=AB5stBgVviUiUd5bqsBSBp5RmFiR2l7DMQ:1693049315483&q=karen+speak+to+the+manager&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7kKWYnPqAAxV-WEEAHRo2CHMQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=360&bih=677&dpr=3

Now it's used to attack any woman being assertive.

I'm not saying it's right. But this is where we're at now, both in the UK and the US.

So yes, it has evolved into a misogynistic meme.

floribunda18 · 26/08/2023 12:28

Lndnmummy · 26/08/2023 12:21

Most people arguing it is a slur are... well
.. Karens. Calling it a slur to deflect off themselves

I have been wanting to type this all morning.🤣

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Well, yes, it is Mumsnet, there are plenty of assertive mature women here who the crap sexist/ageist slur is used against to shut them up.

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/08/2023 12:29

BringMeTea · 26/08/2023 12:23

So much internalised misogyny and ageism on MN lately. So glad that mnhq will delete the use of this misogynistic and ageist slur.

Yes, agreed. Women calling other women Karens over the meaning of an ageist, misogynistic slur.

wayyour · 26/08/2023 12:29

Absolutely. Racism should be dealt with as the serious matter it is.

Suggesting any woman who complains about anything is the same as a racist is absurd and manages to downplay racism while simultaneously monstering and shaming women.

Well put! @ArabeIIaScott

ArabeIIaScott · 26/08/2023 12:29

DerekFaker · 26/08/2023 12:27

Yes, that's the origin of the term. But it's been expanded (in fact was expanded quite a while ago). Firstly to any woman wanting to complain to the manager about something - you MUST have seen all the Karen memes featuring this, they're not new.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=560318274&sxsrf=AB5stBgVviUiUd5bqsBSBp5RmFiR2l7DMQ:1693049315483&q=karen+speak+to+the+manager&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7kKWYnPqAAxV-WEEAHRo2CHMQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=360&bih=677&dpr=3

Now it's used to attack any woman being assertive.

I'm not saying it's right. But this is where we're at now, both in the UK and the US.

So yes, it has evolved into a misogynistic meme.

Edited

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I seem to remember the origin being a man who complained about his wife taking the kids when they split up? Since been used in the US as described here, and now being used for 'complaining woman'.

ChillysWaterBottle · 26/08/2023 12:30

Thefamilywaster · 26/08/2023 12:05

I’ve found this really interesting. I knew that in the US Karen’s were initially toxic white women exerting their privilege over people of colour and I think @DeeCee77 s teachings would have worked far better in a post on its own right. They really do deserve that kind of attention.

so the post has highlighted a few things.

firstly that cultural appropriation of the term has essentially watered down the original meaning which for poc takes power away from them but also that the culturally appropriated term used all over the world now is also used to take power away from women of a certain age who dare to have an opinion on anything regardless of the colour of their skin.

Women complaining of being labelled Karen’s here have no power to stop the use of the term. It’s directed as an insult and designed to shut them up. Its current usage outwith the US (and even within it to a certain extent) has moved away from the empowerment it gave people of colour in calling out racism and is now used generally to shut down any woman and especially women over the age of 35. That is why its appropriated use is both misogynistic and ageist. People saying that are not wrong and DeeCee pointing out the origins of the term is not wrong, they’re just two different uses of the same term, one with social justice connotations and the other the complete opposite of that.

This is inaccurate. Its not cultural appropriation. 'Karen' is a term created and popularised by white men. That was its original and for many years only usage. It came from Reddit in the late noughties but was used all over the Internet for years.

wayyour · 26/08/2023 12:32

BringMeTea · 26/08/2023 12:23

So much internalised misogyny and ageism on MN lately. So glad that mnhq will delete the use of this misogynistic and ageist slur.

Yes, it's been nice to see Mumsnet having zero tolerance of misogyny and ageism and that they will delete posts where people are using it as such.