Uncomfortable in DM’s company!

[Hereforthekickz]

Need a safe place to rant…..
My DM is a pain in the you know what and I wonder if anyone can relate.
She is definitely toxic and maybe a narc but regardless of this, I never feel completely comfortable in her company and often cringe inside when we are together. That alone doesn’t feel right.
I find her extremely difficult to get along with, rude, self centred. She has been like this for years and can’t/won’t change but I still have to vent about her behaviour at times.
Today we had a small family gathering to celebrate by DDs birthday. DM was invited along with other family members. She doesn’t know when to hold her tongue and is forever saying something inappropriate. She likes to control the conversation and it has to be about her. We were all talking and laughing about holidays and DM mentioned a holiday just me and her had taken some 20plus years ago. Instead of talking positively about it, she mentioned that I had fallen out with her one day in the holiday and how I had ignored her for hours etc. I don’t recall this at all and it’s not impossible that she has just made this up for attention or sympathy.
Then she told everyone that I can hold a grudge and will never apologise for anything that I do wrong?! She then said that I like to do what I want and have no problem putting her in her place. She then told everyone that I had fallen out with her a few weeks ago. Now this isn’t true. DM told a lie to a family member so that she could get out of a prior arrangement. She told them she had fallen and hurt her head and couldn’t stop the bleeding which wasn’t true. The family member called me as she was concerned and this put me in an awkward position. I simply told my DM that this wasn’t right and that I wouldn’t lie for her in future. DM then stopped speaking to me for a few days. Today, she asked another family member what would happen to them if they spoke to their DM that way. She said I should have respect for the fact that she is my DM and that I was disrespectful to her. She said she would have gotten a smack on the legs if she had spoken to her DM this way. I am 50 years old! At this point my FIL did try and stick up for me by saying that he had never seen me being difficult to anyone.
We were talking about how well behaved we all were as kids and laughing and joking. DM said, well you were behaved until you had that boyfriend. I told her to stop with the conversation as I knew where it was going. I had a boyfriend in my early 20s that DM didn’t like. He wasn’t right for me in the end but she wanted to control everything, even this relationship and wouldn’t let me navigate it myself. I am now nearly 50 and she is bringing it up at a birthday party. She didn’t like him because he is a man of colour. She started to say this and I cut the conversation dead and she knew not to go any further and she didn’t thankfully.
Me and my DH and DD have just returned from a holiday so we were sharing snaps etc. DM just kept saying things like, why couldn’t I come on your holiday and, oh look, there are 4 seats at that table so I could have come with you. She does this almost every time we go anywhere as a family and tries to pull it off as a joke but it’s not funny anymore.
We bought our DD some theatre tickets for her birthday and I could hear DM saying, why didn’t your Mum get me a ticket, I would have loved to see that show. She knew I was within earshot.
I hold my tongue as much as I can and then get DH to take her home when I have had enough. I just really don’t like her behaviour very much. I think we all know she is difficult.
I just know that whenever I am around her, I feel physically uncomfortable and can’t be my authentic self. Today it felt like she was just picking on me and wanting to paint me in a bad light. I don’t recognise the person she is talking about. She seems to enjoy making me feel belittled. I don’t like her as a person and my respect for her is pretty nonexistent really. She has been like this for years and it has gotten worse the older she gets. I generally go grey rock with her now and am low contact but she does come up to see my DD on birthdays and Christmas.
I just needed to put these feelings somewhere as I do tend to feel like this after every contact. It makes me feel low and she is good at making me question myself, am I really disrespectful, rude, difficult. Did I really fall out? That’s gaslighting for you!
Thanks for listening x

Well she sounds like a pain in the ass to me try and have as little contact as pos as she sounds like it will only get worse I feel for u op x

“She is definitely toxic and maybe a narc but regardless of this, I never feel completely comfortable in her company“

Why are you trying to separate her toxicity from the effect of her behaviour (“regardless of this”)? She makes you feel terrible because she is toxic. I would see as little of hee as possible.

So stop inviting her for birthdays and Christmas. When she asks why tell her the truth

Sorry op, that sounds awful. Nice of your fil to stick up for you. Grey rock is probably best, but then you do need to cut her off at times, as you said in your op. Treat yourself this weekend, you’ve gotten through it.

I can relate to a lot of your post. The being physically uncomfortable part really struck a chord. It’s hard to cut contact if you’ve had a lifetime of being made to feel like the bad one in the relationship and the gaslighting and guilt (which I’m guessing is your mums goal in how she wants you to feel) all contributes to this. I’d keep doing as you are and just try and keep it to the bare minimum. I actually don’t think it’s worth your energy trying to change her or anything. Cut off your emotions to her and just don’t care when she says stuff about you. It’ll just piss her off more if she doesn’t get a reaction. Just know that none of it is about you it is all her and it’s just so sad that some of us end up with mothers like this

Similar here. Her pet topic is how shitty I was as a person when I was a teenager, loves her stories and rallying others round to laugh at me. How about because I was a child dealing with mental health issues completely unsupported, and she allowed me to be in a very obviously abusive relationship with a man in his early twenties when I was under 16?! The things she allowed to happen, are just a million miles away from how I've brought my own kids up, and she seems to dislike me under the surface because it is (in her mind) a judgement against her, rather than progress and love and normality..

Needless to say, I'm much much lower contact with her these days. It has taken so much to overcome the lack of guidance and care from my earlier life that I simply can't risk more damage (to me or my children).

Oh! And like yours, she's a racist too! I truly believe it's because her self esteem is so low that she's invented these mythical people/reasons to hate, to try and make herself feel superior. It's all so hurtful.

You should have let her say out loud how racist she is.

I would have said “I want to go on holidays and not be picked at like a vulture on a buffalo carcass. You haven’t said a single positive thing about me or to me. Going places with you is not enjoyable for me or anyone else who has to listen to you.”
(I actually said something very much like this to my own mum.)

I would aim to go low contact and in large crowd settings keep my distance.

Also practice vague stock phrases "i'm not sure" "i wouldnt know about that" "we'll see" "I'll be right back i just need to pop to the barhroom/make a tea"

She didn’t like him because he is a man of colour. She started to say this and I cut the conversation dead

I’d have let her carry on, giving her enough rope to hang herself with. She sounds utterly vile.

I would print off what you have written in your first post and mail it to DM with a note ‘I sent this to my friend after your last visit a d she suggested sending it to you as you were nasty in your comments. ‘
Dont come round if you can’t be pleasant.
Hereforthekickz

For goodness sake stopping inviting her to special occasions. She is ruining them.
My grandmother came every Christmas and was an utter bitch to my mother.

I’d she asks why - tell her . @Fraaahnces has it right.

The idea of neutral phrases is a good one. I think essentially you are at the point of realising that she adds nothing good to your life and should go low contact.

Honestly you need to go completely nc. Surely other family members have cottoned on to her behaviour now? My aunt is very similar with her only dd, not the sons mind. It's almost as if she is in competition with her, belittles her achievements, tries to muscle in on every occasion cousin hosts. It's horrible but we all put a aunt in her place when she's going off on one and my mum and other aunts will tell her very bluntly to pack it in. My cousin won't go nc and I doubt you will either. She's looking for validation and love from a women who will never give it. You sound very similar. You deserve better, don't let your kids witness you being belittled, go nc.

I mean the obvious thing is to Goni contact. However if you don’t feel that is right for you then the other option is to Reduce contact even further. I would suggest not including her in special events, group invents and instead see her before or after. Eg invite her for lunch the day after a birthday, not to the Main birthday meal- sounds like she is worse around people.

I would have to cut down on the comments made to DD about “why wasn’t I invited”.

Ulimtaly it needs much stronger boudaries and you need to be prepared to walk away from her, hang up, tell her to leave your home when she is saying things that are unkind. If you need motivation then think of yourDD…..model for her how to have boudaries with people who treat you badly!

Just see less of her.

She sounds like my mother!

She drops things into conversation to make me sound awful/ difficult/ unreliable and her a perpetual victim.

A recent example is when I phoned her to confirm the time I’d pick her up for a hospital appointment. Her friend was in the room in earshot & she asked me whether I’d definitely turn because she didn’t want to be let down. So I asked her when I’d ever not done something I’d say I’d do. She said I haven’t. So I asked her why she thinks I’d do it then. No reason.

Calmly call her out. Set those boundaries & stick to them! It’s liberating!

We have a difficult relationship for numerous of reasons, but since I’ve started thinking of her as an older woman I know (rather as my mother who continually disappoints & upsets) the relationship has improved because I don’t have any expectations of her to behave a certain way and nor do I feel any obligation to do anything for her if it’s not convenient.

Oh my goodness, I totally empathise. You've described me after my DM visits. The physical discomfort when she is near me and the guilt and sadness when she leaves are just horrible. My mum is also racist and was outraged when I shut her right down and told her that language like that was beyond inappropriate. She likes to have little digs at me, "jokes" of course, but not jokes. The world revolves around her, my dad has enabled her every step of the way for the past 50 years for a peaceful life but I feel has created a monster. There is no safe topic of conversation, she HATES everything-it's like walking through landmines so I just don't bother anymore. Literally "did you guys see Top Gun?", "I HATE Tom Cruise..." rant rant rant. "Wasn't Kate Middleton's dress beautiful at X?", "I HATE Kate Middleton, she's got a mean mouth..." rant rant rant. My mum's "HATE list" is wide, varied, unpredictable and infinitely evolving it seems. I implemented self protection mode years ago and only speak to her in my dad's company once a week or so but even that can be fraught. Exhausting and all makes me feel like the worst in the world. All of this to say, I understand and feel your distress. Much love.

I think you are very wrong to continue to have this woman in your life and you are even more wrong to inflict on your daughter.

She ruins get togethers and you allow it.

Let this be the last time.

Your poor daughter.

Do not inflict her on your daughter. I have been your DD in this situation and I grew up on eggshells whenever she'd visit because of the stress she'd cause everyone - and it was never taken out on her, it was taken out on me.

Don't do it OP. Just stop talking, calling and seeing her. She is truly fucking awful.

This is really good advice.

She could be my mum, it's bloody hard work and exhausting.

My mum loves to poke fun at me and laugh at childhood incidents that belittle me. It's very annoying... I have a degree which I got in my 40s but she still mentions that I dropped out of my A'levels and can't commit.

The list is endless, I have had therapy and it's really helped me discover how bloody awful my mum is and to forgive her at times for being awful.

I did go NC for 3 months and that was a relief from the constant negative, evil comments.. I've slowly rebuilt the relationship and will tell her when she's being out of order - it's working. However, as I'm no longer providing the reaction she wants she's started on my DD (20). Quite rightly DD wants very little to do with her gran.

The advice I can give is: build bondaries, don't tell her anything and don't feel guilty. Focus on building a wonderful relationship with your DD.

When my mum is positive and kind - I respond in like. If she's not I ignore and become not as available.

Hope this helps and good luck.

It reminds me of my mother. I have been low contact with her for some time now. I know she'll never change so what is the point hoping for a change?
It's really hard though and tends to be at the back of my mind.

Oh WOW! Thank you for all the helpful and supportive comments.
It has taken me some time but I do now realise that she isn’t good for me and that she will never change so I have stopped expecting it. I just take her for what she is. It all comes from her insecurities and is not about me.
I did have a lot of contact with her and was forever trying to please her. This is because she makes me feel guilty. I realise this now and I have dramatically cut contact. I now only speak or see her once a week instead of texting multiple times a day. I just can’t go no contact at the moment and maybe I never will but I am working through it and I am getting stronger. It is so hard to make this decision when you have been manipulated for so long.
I used to let her do and say what she wanted and control everything but now I either actively ignore or I tell her. This obviously makes her worse as she doesn’t like it when I instilled boundaries.
What was funny was my DD when DM said she would have liked to go to see the show, my DD said “well you are not going” she then placed her hand in an L shape and said “loser”, oh dear 😅. It was a bit rude but it made me feel much better😳
When she was mentioning again about coming on holiday and that there was a spare seat at the table, I couldn’t help but say “yes I asked my Dad but he didn’t want to come!” She didn’t like that.
I shouldn’t really get this involved with her toxicity but I just feel like she needs a taste of her own medicine sometimes.
She usually comes to me at Christmas but I agree with the comments suggesting I stop inviting her to these events. I am not defending her actions at all but I bet you can all relate to this…..
She is very good at being toxic and horrible but then she will switch suddenly and she is completely different. She is thoughtful and considerate. She is good company and fun and not at all like she usually is and you can start to think that she has changed and that she is being the DM you want her to be. Then as quickly as that, she has changed again and is back to to nasty DM!!
I continue to work on myself and surround myself with people that love and respect me for who I am.

@Amberjane41 you described it perfectly. My DMs behaviour got worse 13 years ago when I had my DD and that was because she couldn’t be in control anymore as we had a child whose needs came 1st. DM struggled with this concept. For years I tried to juggle this and was far too amenable. As time passes and I got older I realised this wasn’t right. My DH summed it up when he told me she had always been this way but I was too intrenched and couldn’t see it.
I have pushed back ever since and I now realise that I don’t like her behaviour. I don’t tell her anything about my life so as not to give her any ammunition. I do put her in her place and tell her ‘No’. She brings nothing to my life and I feel mentally drained and sad when I have spent time with her.
It is hard to completely let go especially as she is 87 years old. I don’t want to feel any guilt when she has gone and I have been conditioned to feel terrible guilt. That’s a hard one to get over.
Sorry you have experienced the same 💜

My mother is like this but also tries to cause trouble between people.

I haven't spoken to her now for around 10 years. I know she's painting me in a bad light to everyone around me but it's better than having to put up with her.