Bank Insisting I tell them why I am making a Payment to my Daughter

[Gaggley]

I usually do my banking online but thought it would be easier to set up a standing order by calling First Direct today. After going through security, I was asked a number of questions about whether I had been forced to do this, had I been told to download software, was anyone watching me online etc. This is irritating, as it is incredibly unlikely that anyone who was being scammed would say yes, but I answered them none the less.

I was then asked how I had been given the bank details. I said that I had made the transfer before, but still had to give specific details as to how my daughter had given me the bank details, that I had successfully made manual transfers to multiple times over many years. After we'd got past this, I was then told I had to tell them why I was paying money to my daughter. I declined to answer, and was prevented from setting up a standing order. Complaints department confirmed that this was their procedure and they were knowingly preventing me from moving my own money around.

I asked them how much fraud they could quantify had been prevented by these arbitratry measures, they could not answer. But if I had done this myself online, then I would not have to justify my own decisions, could just do it at the drop of a hat. Bloody annoying. But a real problem for people who can't manage to use online services, who are forced to give up their privacy by rules like this.

Does anyone have a bank that will allow you to make transactions over the phone without justifying how they spend their own money, as I would like to switch to them?

My DSis and BIL found me a decent refurbished sir in lawn mower and suggested I but it. They have owned several and user ones to keep the area around their gites tidy for guests. I wouldn't know a good one from a bad one. The bank (Barclays) stopped my payment and wanted to know what it was for and who I was buying it from and had I actually seen the machine itself in person or just gone off a photo in an advert. I explained my DSis and BIL had seen it and recommended it and I totally trusted their well informed judgement - I thought the bank was very invasive about questioning me about my purchase - my DSis is in France and I'm in the UK - they drive over in an empty van normally and pick up things in the UK to take back so it was no problem to bring the mower over to me. I get fed up of having to watch over transactions to see of they have actually gone through or been stopped and then I have to ring in and get to the bottom of it unless their fraud department rings me at home and leaves a cryptic and worrying message! I watch the exchange rates and will get alerted if the rate goes back above €1.2/£ which was the last time I exchanged a decent amount into Euros. I think I'll exchange say £10k into Euros and leave it in something like Wise (in what they call a Jar). I started using Wise because using Barclays to pay for anything in Euros was such a PITA.

I bank with NatWest, and regularly transfer money to my ACs. Unless it's over £2k transaction, no one queries it.

Setting up a standing order is not the same as transferring money. FD and RBS don’t allow that to be done online, I don’t know about other banks.

The system is there to prevent customers from undue influence. My bank gave me the 3rd degree about a payment to a builder- but I was fine with it, as I knew they were trying to protect me in case the builder was dodgy (he wasn't, and we got it all sorted out, and further payments to him went through without any problems- because I answered all the questions openly).
Banks are in a cleft stick- if they let a payment go through that's fraud or undue influence, people cry out that the bank should refund. If they try to check things out to prevent it, people moan that they are being interrogated. We can't have it both ways.

"We can all give as much as we like to whomever we like without paying any tax."
Indeed. But the recipient can't avoid paying tax on it unless it meets some fairly tight criteria- which IIRC from the last time I checked, you have not stated accurately.

I had no idea you could still do phone banking. But I think they are right to check. Have you seen the daytime tv shows where people have been scammed.

I had this same shit with Royal Bank of Scotland. I've moved to Starling (an online bank). I took my time to avoid their stupid hassle but I have slowly moved all of my savings over to Starling over the course of a year or so (through small transactions online). I find it so infuriating too. It's none of their fucking business.

i had to beg and plead to set up a standing order for my rent which was going to a well established chain of estate agents who were next door to the bank.

It has got worse since I hit 60. It’s like they see my age and have decided I am not competent to pay anyone as I am obviously being scammed.

Given up on delivery services as we order what we want then when it comes to paying my card can’t be used

They phone the next morning to check it was me trying to order a pizza and then say they will let it go through if I want to proceed with the transaction

Banks don't just decide to ask these questions to cover their backs, protect the customers, or to be a PITA. They are regulated businesses which MUST comply with money laundering regulations in the UK.

From the government website: www.gov.uk/guidance/money-laundering-regulations-your-responsibilities

Businesses must carry out enhanced due diligence for a number of purposes including "any other situation where there’s a higher risk of money laundering". As pp pointed out, sending money to "your kids" is a common scam at the moment and would likely trigger EDD.

EDD should involve "finding out where funds have come from and what the purpose of the transaction is"

This isn't bank policy or specific to this bank. Every bank should be doing it in order to comply with regulations. If you don't like it, your issue is with the the regulators. If a bank isn't doing EDD, I'd avoid them completely.

The bank will also be wanting to check that the builder is paying VAT on the amount of your invoice. Otherwise they might be concerned that the VAT evaded equates to the proceeds of a crime, which they are not allowed to handle.

I dont mind the checks too much as its pretty easy on the bank I now have, but I left my last bank (seems customers are leaving in droves if tryst pilot's anything to go by) as they would just randomly stop payments without discussion and it could be up to 24 hours before thier "fraud" department sent a text asking if it was you transferring the money, this being despite you having already jumped through many hoops just to log on to their app, set the transfer up and confirm it was you and you were sure you wanted to send the money etc.

Your money just disappeared sometimes up to 3.days while they verified it was you moving it

HSBC have never grilled us like that

FD is HSBC.

@Yalta if they are stopping you from buying a pizza you seriously need to change your bank.

I have literally just set up a new SO from FB using their banking app.

How?

Ah, thank you @SpidersAreShitheads

My bank stopped me making a payment/transfer even after I spoke to them on the phone and I clarified I was happy to proceed and take the hit if it went wrong because I knew who I was paying. They stopped the payment and froze my account. I’m looking into moving banks, I appreciate they need to be careful but this was my money and I confirmed I wanted to continue with no comeback on the bank.

I had a situation where I was trying to set up a payment to a friend for theatre tickets..bank stopped the transaction and I got a security phone call..answered all the questions but woman said I had to go to a branch to confirm identify and prove I was buying tickets..when I said I couldn't get the tickets without the payment she thought I was still unreasonable and decided to stop all my online banking!!

I complained to the bank through their formal procedures and they listened to the call and agreed I had been treated very unfairly and they awarded me compensation (more than the tickets were worth) and said they would speak to the person (who was clearly just power crazed)

Complain and see how it goes.

Actually a considerable amount of fraud has been prevented by these checks and they are well worthwhile. See here: https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/news-and-insight/press-release/over-ps55-million-fraud-prevented-in-2022-rapid-response-scheme

This - people often get scammed and then complain that their bank did nothing to intervene when they were sending the money. I'd rather banks erred on the side of caution.

Exactly. They were just trying to protect the OP (which is good).

Also, I bet my friend wished the bank had intervened when she sent £100k to a scammer (known fraud). This was about 10 years ago and luckily it seems the bank have upped their protection

This is indeed what people would do that are being coerced by relatives or strangers

Coerced as in physically threatening?

When I do transfers, it verifies that the sort code and account number match the name on the account.

It then asks you why you are transferring - all online etc.

Then it asks if you understand the risks and you proceed.

All good to ensure that you don't lose money.