Bank Insisting I tell them why I am making a Payment to my Daughter

[Gaggley]

I usually do my banking online but thought it would be easier to set up a standing order by calling First Direct today. After going through security, I was asked a number of questions about whether I had been forced to do this, had I been told to download software, was anyone watching me online etc. This is irritating, as it is incredibly unlikely that anyone who was being scammed would say yes, but I answered them none the less.

I was then asked how I had been given the bank details. I said that I had made the transfer before, but still had to give specific details as to how my daughter had given me the bank details, that I had successfully made manual transfers to multiple times over many years. After we'd got past this, I was then told I had to tell them why I was paying money to my daughter. I declined to answer, and was prevented from setting up a standing order. Complaints department confirmed that this was their procedure and they were knowingly preventing me from moving my own money around.

I asked them how much fraud they could quantify had been prevented by these arbitratry measures, they could not answer. But if I had done this myself online, then I would not have to justify my own decisions, could just do it at the drop of a hat. Bloody annoying. But a real problem for people who can't manage to use online services, who are forced to give up their privacy by rules like this.

Does anyone have a bank that will allow you to make transactions over the phone without justifying how they spend their own money, as I would like to switch to them?

I disagree with a lot of people here- there’s checking you’re who you say you are and that you want it to be in relation to your daughter, but the why question seems ridiculous! Banking is getting more and more difficult, there are roadblocks everywhere, the hoops that need to be jumped through only for them to send you to the app which generally stalls just as you need it, leading to the bank questioning who you are.

How old are you op?

I so wish they’d done this with my father when he was in the starting stage of dementia and undiagnosed

I've read about 70 percent of this thread and seen love in half the messages and irritation on the other for most of the banks already mentioned, most high street names and others that are newcomers.

Anyone found a bank or savings scheme that has what they consider to be sensible/ proportionate measures for situations such as the OP's? (I agree about NSI being exceptionally difficult to liberate your own funds from, yet super-easy to add more money to on an online dashboard)

good luck to you finding better than first direct. 1 of the best about. my own experience of customer service has always been outstanding. as previous poster said banks are damned if they do and damned if they dont

This is all to protect you! There's a known scam where the scammer pretends to be your daughter and they have lost their bag which includes their phone and bank cards. The scammer is really convincing and cons mothers into transferring big sums of money to them to 'tide them over until the bank sends them new cards etc'. The bank want to know that your daughter has physically given you her bank details and it's not all going to scammers. There may be money laundering to consider toouf large amount. Just say is a gift?!

In answer to the OPs question, I cannot be of any help.

I support reasonable measures to prevent scams which this seems to be, to try to reduce fraud or coercive behaviour. Where I dissent from banks is that this does not seem to apply to all customer regardless of wealth, income or location.

I would be even more supportive of banks had it not been for their branch closures over recent years.

I am so sick on this nonsense.

Elenvty-billion pages of 'are you sure' on the Santander App when trying to put £20 into DS account.

I had a massive argument with the Manager of our local Nat West because iI went into branch to get £500 in cash. There is a machine inside the branch that actually lets you withdraw this amount (different to the normal cashpoint) but it was broken. So I queued. And would they give it to me? Would they fuck. I was nearly crying with frustration. There was zero logic.

Me: But if they machine was working, it wouldn't be asking me questions?
Them: But the machine isn't working.
Me: But your policy MUST BE that you can let people withdraw £500 of their own money without being interrogated, because you have a machine that lets you do just this.
Them: But the machine isn't working.
Me. I know that. But it's the same transaction
Them: You need to fill in this form.
Me: I don't. It's to pay someone
THem: We need to see the invoice
Me: You really don't. Does the machine ask that?
Them: But the machine is broken.

And on and on it went.

I had a proper meltdown. Proper.

£500. Not even £1K

Nanny-state nonsense.

This happened near me a few years ago

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/bank-workers-barclays-westerhope-scam-17141775

It’s not the fecking nanny state for god’s sake. It’s a cold hard business decision, the opposite of the so-called nanny state. The banks are pissing money through all orifices right now through the feckless simply giving it away.

SO change the policy and make the feckless reap what they sow. Stops the stupid questions and stops them pissing away money

I wondered, while reading this, whether they ask you what the transfer is for as part of a pattern recognition thing, I mean if it's congruent with previous reasons given. Someone said upthread that certain scammers have favourite lines they ask their victims to use, so those could form a suspicious pattern. Reimbursing adult DC for buying the DGCs' birthday presents fits my previous behaviour so there would be less reason for concern. I lent a large-ish amount to another family member not long ago and there were some questions around that, which seemed reasonable as it was a one-off. Dear Mr/Ms Bank, if it helps you protect my money, please do keep asking! The time it takes to answer is but a few minutes - not much compared with how long it would take to replace the defrauded funds. I don't think they'd normally insist on an intrusive level of detail unless there's some reason it didn't smell right (like you've unknowingly used one of those scammer lines which just happened to be true in your case!).

If you read the thread OP has already made payments to her DD so her bank details are already in her account.

I got as far as "I usually do my banking online but thought it would be easier to set up a standing order by calling First Direct today."

I only call my bank if I really have to. Day to day banking is far easier online.

Why did you think it would be easier, OP?

I also use credit cards for all purchases as sometimes banks stop payments if they don't like what you are buying.

he main points are that the bank needs to be certain that they're talking to the account holder, that the account holder knows who they're transferring money to, and that the account information has come from a trusted and verified source. The bank doesn't need to know how the daughter is going to spend the money to do that.

All well and good until like in that example where the elderly couple were being scammed by the neighbour who had carefully made them believe they must say it is to the granddaughter. It is the same with immigration officers- they have to ask out of the box questions which are by nature intrusive, to be sure there is no scamming. More than fraud, its being being genuinely scammed and they believe it is a genuine situation. Like someone make someone hand cash to them lying they have some insurance for them or that they will get their money back once their property is sold and the money just never comes and the requests never stop. Sometimes, people are genuinely embarrassed to give real reasons to the banks even though having done so, the bank might have spotted the anomaly sooner and save them.

My bank looks after my money well too, so I have no complaints even when they stop my transactions from going through and send me a text to press yes if it was me.

I'm glad the banks are taking steps to protect customers from fraud but last week I actually gave up on completing an international transfer. I had to phone the bank because they didn't allow it online. I answered all their questions. I agreed that I understood I would lose the money if it was fraud. (I knew it wasn't). The security was OTT. I was transferring £300 so it wasn't exactly my life savings. The whole experience was very frustrating.

Get a life OP, seriously.

Banks are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Just tell the bank why you’re transferring the money and get over it.

My international banking goes very smoothly online, although the country I send money to wasn't added to online banking until about 4 years ago and had had to always go to the bank before that- for over a decade. It even takes 5 mins and I speak to no soul- just get a code to punch in :)

That is like something out of a Monty Python sketch! No doubt the branch staff are under orders from HQ to follow the stated policy.

Credit card companies are much better at getting your money back if it turns out to be fraudulent. I use PayPal as well for another layer of protection.

Thank you all for making me make my decision. I will use the bank ATM self-service machine inside the bank. The last time I went in side a bank regarding cash was me giving them about £80 in change coins and wanting it put in my account.

Whenever I had to pay a handy man cash, withdraw say £300 and I paid £150, I ensure when I do my next supermarket shop I pay part cash, part card. Sometimes I would keep £50 for emergency, but my atm was 3 mins from my home so that was not necessary and I hate cash making my purse bulky.

Agreed re credit cards. Hence I stick with them when abroad where instances of fraud are everywhere you spend including card clonning.

The ‘why’ is in relation to money laundering laws which changed recently. If a transfer or deposit is over a certain amount they will ask questions around what the money is being used for.

This is the reason I no longe bank with Natwest.