Cardiology appointments

[originaltastecoke]

I'm genuinely not sure if I am being unreasonable or not so hear me out.

Over the past 30 years I've had 3/4 cardio appointments ranging from age 14 to 44. At each one I've had to be fully undressed including bra from the waist up. All of these appointments were carried out by men with no chaperone offered. So in a room on your own with breasts exposed. Just had one this morning (echo) with a very pleasant male sonographer. This is the first echocardiogram I've had, but again no chaperone. Because of the way I had to lie on my side on the bed, he had to sort of perch on the bed next to me so his body was touching mine. He also had to touch and move one of my breasts to place to US probe in the right place.
I'm not for a second suggesting there was anything untoward going on with this man. But surely for his OWN peace of mind/security it would make sense for there to be someone else in the room? And as I say, this is not a one off - it has happened at other appointments too - in different locations and hospitals.

I'm a very chilled person and used to go topless on holiday etc but I can imagine some other women would feel extremely uncomfortable in this situation.

To make it worse, when he left the room to allow me to put my clothes back on (seemed pointless 😆), another random guy (I think was a doctor?) just walked in as I was putting my top on! He apologised but I've come away feeling like I've exposed myself to half the department!

Is this the norm?

That is really inappropriate- I hope you complained.

Thank you, and sorry to hear about your heart issues.
Yes I think I will send them some feedback.

I haven't been offered a chaperone in ages, both privately and in the NHS. In the last couple of years, I've seen male consultants for gynae, breasts, cardiology, two hip replacements (a lot of finger running up my bottom scar on my last appointment while chatting which felt a little embarrassing), you name it.

Personally the smaller the audience, the better but I can appreciate others may feel differently.

You can request a chaperone, and the situation of some additional person wandering in when you are half-dressed shouldn't arise.

I had an appointment which was very similar to your description. I've also had multiple outings to the breast clinic for cysts, where obviously I've been topless too. I have to say that I found the lying down with someone reaching over me like that felt far more intrusive than standing up in full view. I wasn't sure if the way he was doing it was so that he wasn't looking at me so much, but if so, it didn't help. At the breast clinic it's never bothered me.

The echocardiographer should clip the curtains together with a sign ideally

I'm guessing it's because it's not exactly classed as an intimate examination, however perhaps it should be, and the middle ground is offering a chaperone if wished,

I had a heart scan recently and a woman did it and there was a lot of touch and reaching across I noticed. It was absolutely fine but I might have felt differently if it had been a male.

On the point about someone walking in, I had an ecg in A&E recently. I was behind a curtain with my chest (no bra) exposed and someone opened the curtain and said, ‘Cup of tea?’ I later mentioned it to a nurse and she said that shouldn’t have happened and ‘I bet it was a man.’ I said it was and she was not surprised.

I recently had an echocardiogram. Firstly I was provided with a hospital gown to wear (back to front so it opened at the front). This actually meant for the most part my breasts were covered during the echocardiogram.

Secondly before getting dressed, during the examination and until after getting redressed, a curtain was drawn around the bed. The desk and computer were outside of this curtain (the echo machine obviously within it and right next to the bed). This means that if another staff member were to enter the room I would still have been concealed from them and also meant I could take off and replace my clothes in relative privacy.

I think these things are really easy to arrange and make women more comfortable. There's not much reason I can think of for all echocardiograms to be conducted in this way. I would feed this back, being clear that there was nothing inappropriate about the physiologist's conduct.

Another very simple thing to do when a breast needs to be moved out of the way is to ask the woman to do it herself. She should at the very least be asked each time before a clinician touches /moves her breast.

I didn't have a chaperone either but there should be a clear way of asking for one. The nature of the echocardiogram means they have to press right up to you but I think it would be much less awkward to be wearing something, even if you were partially exposed.

Whelp, the first time I had one, it was by a man and was told to strip from the waist up. I felt it was creepy but dismissed it as I didn’t know any better).

Second time, it was done by a woman and that time I could leave by bra on 🧐

Ive since needed a third (now in a different country), again by a man, and I was told bra off but was given a gown with various strategic openings so I wasn’t just lying there exposed the whole time.

I’ve thought about it a lot and decided my gut was right and the first guy was just a creep.

My 7 year old had an echo this week. She has had many as she had open heart surgery as a toddler. She already isn't comfortable undressing for strangers and wore a playsuit that buttons down the front so that she felt less exposed. It's going to be hard on her as a teen.

@WiddlinDiddlin Nope, fat is not a problem, skinny with sticking out ribs is.

US doesn't pass through air or bone so a layer of fat is fine and makes it easier.

@Oysterbabe I've been in the positon of offering to do a test on a teenage girl when it was scheduled for a male but she actually prefered the male.

Sorry you had a similar experience.

I echo (excuse the pun) everything you've said here.

I was given a gown but it was fairly pointless as it mainly covered my back. The front just fell open. May have felt more of a cover to someone with smaller norks 😉

Sorry to hear about your daughter's condition.
Fingers crossed that by the time she is a teen they will have thought up a more dignified way for these tests to be carried out.
Explainjng properly, reassuring and asking the woman to move her own breast are some of the more simple solutions.

I've had two stays in hospital over the last few months and for some reason, staff just popping through a closed curtain seems to be the norm. Some of them say "hellooo, alright if I come in?" as they do it, I mean what am I meant to say, you're already here so apparently it is alright if you come in?

I've had so many echos over the years that I probably don't really notice any more (another with a congenital heart condition).

Latest one was with a man who asked if I was ok with that (I was; never asked for a chaperone but I think they would provide one if requested). Then another - young, male - doctor popped in to watch! He did introduce himself and ask if it was ok.

I had a gown and although there was some manoeuvring required it did pretty much cover my boobs throughout & I adjusted it when they escaped. Also the light is low in the room and there is a curtain between the door and the bed.

I think that as long as a chaperone is available if needed that was all fine. A gown is an ok cover-up and the unavoidable physical closeness is counteracted by the technician having their eyes fixed on the screen not the patient.

Also, and I don't know if it's just my hospital, but I do think it would be helpful to be told wtf to expect when you're booked in for appointments and tests more often - a leaflet or card with a link to an NHS webpage would be enough.

I have breast cancer, and have turned up to an appointment before without having been told it would be a scan of the tumour to see how it had reacted to chemotherapy so far. So I had no idea I was a) meant to get my tits out and b) might need to steel myself for bad news (luckily it was good news).

The weirdest experience I've had involving my breasts, was when I had to have an xray to rule out pneumonia. I was told I was going to have a chest xray and they hooked me up to an IV. Then I got taken for the xray still hooked up.

Thank god it was a lady in xray. Bra underwire can't be in the xray, but you can't easily take it off over a drip bag so she had to help me undo it, stuff it through the arm of my tshirt, then pull it back through and clip it back up.

I actually don't think I'd be as bothered if it was a curtain but it was an actual room with the door closed.

But yes they shouldn't be just coming into a cubicle without announcing either.

Cardiac scientist??? Is this in the UK, never heard this title. I had one,by a (very cute) male cardiology consultant,wore a gown,no bra. Worse thing,was a theatre full of staff for a colonoscopy, consultant looking at my face, said ", don't I know you"? I worked on a different ward.

Why would it bother you less, when the curtain is all the privacy you're afforded for days at a time?

Both stays in the AMAU, I was in a two bed room with another patient and curtains.

The second time I was sharing with a man old enough to be my dad, so did have the curtain drawn at times, although we got on very well.

I’m a doctor who does echos.

False allegations are vanishingly rare. Far far less common than inappropriate behaviour by drs.

I really dislike the assumption that women lie. They really don’t.

Different situation here but, I was in hospital bed bound (couldn't lift or move anything) for 4 months, I was in a coma for 2 of these months, I reckon every staff member has seen my boobies and vag... WELL..... I'm glad I don't work there 😂😂🫣

I work in the same department, don’t do ECHOs, but have done while I was training, it usually says on the letter you can ask for a chaperone, we can’t provide chaperones for every single scan as standard because we would essentially need to almost double the staff as they scan all day every day, but something to raise with the department as it should be on the letter, we also have signs around the department and in clinic rooms saying you can request chaperones and one should ideally be offered before the test if performed by a male on a female patient.

Slightly different as I do ecg's for children. So the parents are in the room as well, they can ask for an additional chaperone if they want but never do. You do need to be naked from the waist up but I always offer the girls a hospital gown. Which if you put on backwards like a dressing gown covers enough so you're not totally exposed. The consultant (male) also offers this for the echos & again a chaperone is offered but usually declined.