What to say to the children about their dad being an asshole?

[CareBearIsHere]

Unfortunately I had a relationship with someone I should have avoided at all costs and I now have two fantastic and beautiful children. Fortunately I have got rid of him.

I’ve been told not to be derogatory about him in front of the children and have really tried hard over the last 7 years. I have also tried to facilitate contact and at times have actually paid for his transport/accomm to see the children. He said he didn’t have any cash.

Ex has a history of veering between awful selfishness and unpleasantness. He has said some pretty mean things to kids like “get back in touch when you are older”. He won’t pick up the phone or respond to my 11 year old’s messages. He sometimes does pick up but it is very much on his terms.

I need my 11 year old to understand that it is my ex who is at fault. My ex can be mean and very unpleasant. I also don’t want to make excuses for my ex’s behaviour as it is crap. I don’t want the children to grow up taking this shit from anyone.

Any words of wisdom on what approach to take? What should I be saying if my 11 year old (as yesterday) says Dad just won’t pick up?

My ex would claim he has been stripped of his paternal rights and stitched up like a kipper. However this is just a blame game. There is a history of him neglecting kids prior to the break up. And dubious behaviour since when he did visit. There are only a few phone calls a year (if even that - some years zero), no birthday presents, no birthday cards, no phone calls on birthday, no Christmas gifts, no letters.

He was abusive and financially abusive with me and there was coercive control. I’m glad to be shot but want my children to grow up with healthy relationships etc. I need to be honest as well as diplomatic.

Your 11 year old will already know it’s his father that’s at fault. All you need to say on a day to day basis is something like “oh well, did you leave a message?” Then give him a brief hug and move on.

Wiser people than me will have longer term strategies for when your ds wants to talk about how crap his father is - mine were a bit older than yours and had the conversations with friends and peers before they did with me. By the time they were in their late teens we could all acknowledge his crapness - they knew I thought he was crap because I’d divorced him.

I think the research shows that one loving, secure parent is enough for stability.

It's right to point out that his behavior is poor. So you don't say "Your father is an asshole," you say "I think it's very unfair to you when...". Criticize the behavior, not the person.

To be honest, as someone who had a shitty dad, I think my mum handled it really well by never really saying anything that could be construed as negative. She only ever said anything factual and never made excuses for him when we talked to her about it ‘yes, it’s disappointing he hasn’t answered the phone’ ‘it isn’t kind of him to do/say xyz’ etc but never brought it up herself. She put us right if we said something that was incorrect, like if we said ‘oh at least he pays child maintenance’ she’d point out he actually didn’t. Then we just saw him for what he was. At 11 your son is at an age where he’ll see it too.

We have a very similar situation. Kids are far more perceptive than we give them credit for. How I’ve dealt with it is to talk broadly about behaviour. Teaching them to challenge unacceptable behaviour when they see it. We talk about what a good parent looks like and how it’s the adults responsibility to meet the child’s needs irrespective of a failed relationship. We talk about what a good partner looks like and they see examples of that in their uncles and other male role models. We talk about societal structures and how these are designed to entrap women and how that filters down to everyday relationships.

Dd’s often connect our discussions to their dad. More often they’ll compare their friends separated parents to their dad’s lack of effort. It won’t bode well for him in the coming years. They love him and the lack of structure there. But they also recognise that he’s completely unreliable. They no longer ask him for things they need, which is actually quite sad when you think about it.

Dd1 is nearly 12, I’ve taught her to think critically, which makes parenting interesting. So they’re driving through the city with her dad and the girlfriend. He excitedly points out to where he works. He’d been saying for months that he didn’t have a job. No money, so he’d reduced maintenance to an insulting amount this is all whilst living extravagantly. Dd turns to him and says “I thought you didn’t have a job” 🤣 he then sputters that he was on a “break” but is now back working. If only I could have been a fly in that car!

It's always really tempting to feel that your kids should be made to "understand" these situations but I think outside of cases of severe abuse and really awful behaviour it's usually best avoided.

Your kids will figure this out for themselves over time (probably already have done). They will already know you are the parent who puts in the hard yards on their behalf and their dad isn't.

I divorced my ex because he drank too much, was verbally and financially abusive and did very little to support me. I am very very hardline about never slagging him off to my DD (12), although he has been rude about me to her. She now has a fairly cordial but quite distant relationship with him but very much sees me as her important parent and will always choose me over him. She's figured it out on her own without me needing to sow negativity which could hurt her.

I remember a friend whose parents had divorced due to his father's alcoholism telling me something which always stuck with me: he said that if your parents have split and one parent criticises the other it is experienced by the child as a personal attack on you as you are literally half of the other parent. It never helps.

Kids aren't stupid: they know instinctively who it is who is doing the hard work. And they won't thank you ultimately from making them feel torn over something they have no control over.

I've always imagined it isn't easy to be a non-resident parent. It would have broken my heart if I had had to be one and I'm not sure I would have been a good one.
So perhaps say that to your children.

@Sayitaintso33 I agree. Ex says this himself. He says his heart is broken and he does not know them. But he can say the most awfully hurtful things to them.

No do not say this.

It is hard to be a NR parent. That doesn't make it ok to say 'get iñ touch when you are older'.

The parent should think about the child, the child shouldn't have to accommodate the parent's inability to behave like an adult.

The truth is this parent is an unkind parent. Their words towards their children are damaging.

This is the correct approach.

You can also say 'I think your Dad should say these things to me or a friend instead of saying these things to you as you had no choice in the fact we separated.'

I've always tried not to be negative about xh to the dc, they are with him half the week and do have a decent relationship with him, although they prefer their time with me. I sometimes say things like "Dad doesn't always remember things correctly " or "dad doesn't understand what's it's like being a girl/having hair/etc" when he's been harsh with them

Unfortunately they have heard him speaking to me like shit, and do see for themselves what type of person he can be, so I don't need to tell them!

I’m surprised that you facilitate the contact at all. What positive this guy brings to your children’s lives?I suppose he’s “too skint” to afford any child support?

What are you teaching your child? Seeking approval at any cost from somebody who should love his child unconditionally? This has a potential for backfiring later in life- people pleasing,low self esteem and need for therapy.

I’m sorry to be blunt but I’d drop the rope completely.

Your poor kids

You might want to read Lundy Bancroft's "When Dad Hurts Mom" which covers pre and post separation abuse and its effect on children, including how to talk to them about it.

Also available to listen to on Audible as part of the thirty day introductory trial.

Another member of the shitty dad club here, and yes I agree with this. My mum did very similarly to this, and I think it was good of her and probably took a lot of tongue-biting!!

The only thing I'd say is that when I grew up and reflected on my childhood and my parents, I came to the realisation that my dad is indeed a massive dickhead. I tried to talk about this with my mum but she was sticking to the "your dad loves you very much, but he has his problems and he has trouble with XYZ" script. No mum, I'm 25 now, I'm old enough to understand he's just a dickhead 🤣 so then she did actually let the guard down a bit more and I was able to get all my feelings out - it was quite cathartic to be honest. I still bristle when anyone who isn't my mum, sibling, or husband says anything about him though. My mum did a very good job of making sure relatives and family friends didn't speak negatively about him in front of us, so I guess I've got used to that. He's still my dad, after all.

But yes, until they're very grown up I would stick to never being negative but always being factual as the above post says.

It does no end of harm to lie to children and try and cover a deadbeat dad's poor and often abusive behaviour. All it does is teach them that you're another person they can't trust and normalises accepting abuse in a relationship and even being abusive to others.

It's absolutely healthy to tell the truth and criticise the person and their behaviour if necessary (age appropriate). Use acceptable language but tell the truth all the same.

I agree with the majority of posts that you've had here. It's ok to criticize his behaviour "I would be disappointed if I didn't get a call back too" because it's stuff like that which will tune her radar to crappy friends and partners in future too. Excusing his behaviour "Maybe he hasn't called back because he's busy with work" risks her growing up always excusing bad behaviour from friends and partners. Being upset that a call hasn't been returned is fair and you don't want to gaslight your dd and minimising things.
My kids have asked questions to me about their dad's behaviour and sometimes I say things like "I don't know" , "What do you think?" or "What happened last time ?" to help them connect the dots.

I agree with the others. I've done a huge amount of tongue biting over the years and mine are v v sensitive to anything remotely negative, even if it's not a criticism but a casual, jokey comment like "your dad couldn't do handstands either" (or whatever). Various communications from him over the years makes it clear he thinks I'm a terrible parent but not so bad I shouldn't do it all bar a couple of days a month.

My son is 14 and has FINALLY come to the realisation that I'm not responsible for dad, his dad forgot his brothers birthday he tried blaming me because I "should have reminded him" I said 1, he didn't need reminding about YOUR birthday a few weeks ago and 2, it's literally TATTOOED on him he CAN read its been a long process

Don't makes excuses, my mother did. Dont cover up his bad behaviour. Tell them it is not because of anything they did that their dad does not see them more.

This seems the best approach.

@Theunamedcat "literally tattooed on him"

No dont

the choice to be a good parent or not, regardless of circumstances is down to that parent. In this case the father could make the effort, it takes no effort to pick up the phone when your child calls. A good parent, who wanted to be involved would do everything they could to be there for their child, regardless of how hard it was for them

in this case he is choosing not to be there

Op people are right, discuss the action, oh dear did you leave a message etc. your child will know what their father is like

I echo others saying don't cover for him but at the same time don't slag him off. Keep it factual and be empathetic.

My ex was abusive. He regularly lies to the kids about me and himself. But also he's a shit dad and they see it.

I find myself saying things like "I'm not in charge of dad he makes decisions for himself" "yes I can see how that's upsetting you I'm sorry you are feeling that way" "that's dad's opinion it's not mine"

Perhaps I shouldn't but when they are telling me about a good weekend they had "at dads house" I tend to ask 'who took you there? Who played that with you?' 'Oh it was step mom/nanny? Where was daddy. Then make no comment when they tell me he was in bed or playing computer. Because I will not let them have this association that 'dads house' is awesome and they bake cakes and go to the park and play games when it's step mom and nanny doing it and dad taking the credit. But I'm careful never to give my opinion on their dad I just make sue when they say "I had a great weekend at dad's house" they realise who is making the effort for them in reality

I think maybe just talk with them when there has been unkind words or actions from their dad. How do they feel Etc. offer reassurance that his actions are reflections on himself only and not on them. If he is ignoring calls you can say something along the lines of “I don’t know why he isn’t answering, maybe he is busy or maybe he feels like he can’t answer right now”. As they get slightly older and if their father is being rude you can help them think about what boudaries they might want to put in place.

Of course he is too skint, @FrenchBoule - he claims he doesn’t have even £7 a week to pay for maintenance. As single parent, I work full time and pay for every single thing.

This (backfiring in later life, people pleasing etc) is exactly what I want to avoid. I wasn’t sure how to go about this.

Yes I’m possibly getting it wrong in my cack handed way. I wasn’t sure how to go about navigating this, which is why I posted for advice. I don’t have direct experience of this and have tried to go for honesty too.

I think you have a point about dropping the rope, although child now has own phone and tries to contact him themselves.

It is trickier too as child is on the spectrum. I would like to try and get this right.