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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

A moral question for you all

482 replies

WhaleSharkBootySweat · 22/08/2023 09:43

Imagine you go into a really nice small business selling either homewares or food. You pick something up that you really like, but it's the end of the month and you can't really afford it. What is the main reason that stops you from stealing it?

A.) Fear of getting caught, punished, criminal record, shame, losing your job
B.) Sympathy for the small business owner, not wanting them to lose money

Or something else.
For me it's massively more B but then I don't steal from chain stores, so I guess A must come into it then?
I just wonder where these moral decisions we make daily come from. Is it fear of repercussions or genuine moral compass? Why do a third of shoppers steal from self checkouts but wouldn't steal from a cashier at the till?
I think about the idea that if there wasn't law and order, then we would all steal and murder, but I genuinely believe that most of us wouldn't? I mean I've never felt compelled to, but why is that? Empathy?

OP posts:
Creamteasandbumblebees · 23/08/2023 12:30

It's wrong because it doesn't belong to you therefore why would you think it's ever okay to take it?

WaitingfortheTardis · 23/08/2023 12:31

I've never wanted something enough to steal it the only circumstance I can imagine doing so is if something major happened and it was for food that I and my family would otherwise starve without.

Rosscameasdoody · 23/08/2023 12:43

Threenow · 22/08/2023 20:54

Another vote for C: - you just don't steal things. I wouldn't dream of stealing anything from a shop, ever.

But the question wasn’t would you steal, it was more why wouldn’t you - what informs your knowledge that it’s wrong.

bigbluefish · 23/08/2023 12:53

Because it’s wrong. It’s against the law.
I’m alarmed that someone would even ask this. Is this what our ‘I’ll speak MY truth’ society has brought us to?

SmellsLikeTeenSpirits · 23/08/2023 13:11

When I worked for a high street retailer in my early 20s we were told that 1 in 5 shoppers would be prepared to steal something. And based on shrinkage figures and people caught shoplifting this feels about right. This was a shop selling entertainment products so no ‘need’ involved - only ‘want’. Caught shoplifters varied hugely from a social demographic perspective. The very young, the very old, the absolutely skint, the absolutely minted, the daughter of the local chief superintendent. When working in the flagship London store we even caught a ‘celebrity’ who was doing a personal appearance stealing. So either 20 % of people on this thread are fibbing - or all the light fingered mumsnetters are avoiding this post 😆

When I worked for same retailer in the far east theft was practically non-existent. There were lots of reasons for this - but the primary factor seemed to be that it was absolutely culturally unacceptable. Theft was punished severely by police force but the shame it would bring on your family was immense and the main deterrent. It just wasn’t worth the risk.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 23/08/2023 13:49

I think that if you are prepared to steal or to condone stealing (outside of real desperation), you are saying you are happy to live in a culture where theft is acceptable - I’m not happy to live in such a society, but the only person I can control is me, so I do not steal.

For the people who think it is OK to steal from a big corporation, do you also think it is OK to steal from someone you perceive as being well-off? And if so, where do you draw the line - if someone is not as financially secure as you, are you happy for them to steal from you?

Dilemma8188 · 23/08/2023 13:51

I absolutely wouldn't judge someone stealing food or necessities from a large chain. They're all over paying their shareholders and evading taxes, so frankly I see them as the bigger thieves. I wouldn't do it because I'm not in need and would be mortified of getting caught.
Small business, I would go out of my way to support and wouldn't condone stealing from.

RiverDulas · 23/08/2023 13:57

How many big chains have collapsed recently? People shop lifting has certainly contributed to this.

Cherrysoup · 23/08/2023 14:17

Because it’s arsehole behaviour and unless you’re starving, (well, even then, there are food banks) you shouldn’t steal, it’s just wrong.

Chaucer53 · 23/08/2023 14:54

I don't know if it's how you're brought up but some things just aren't done. I would never steal and I've been extremely brassic before to the point my card has been declined and I had to leave things behind but I still didn't steal. It's just wrong. If we all ignore the rules even the imaginary ones that we all abide by every day then everything would fall into anarchy. I remember dropping litter in the woods as a small child and my mum told me off and made me pick it up and hold it until we got until the next bin. As a grown up I never litter, to the point I even pick up litter others throw on the floor when they've litteraly been right nexto a bin. I irks me so much because people are so quick to moan when the pretty places in life we all visit are full of litter/unclean when they aren't themselves doing the bare minimum to help.

GreatGardenstuff · 23/08/2023 15:12

It’s not mine, it’s wrong to take it.

A and B are just bonus reasons not to do it for me.

ididntwanttodoit · 23/08/2023 15:17

I do not see myself as a thief. I do not wish to think of myself as a thief. That's the main reason. I would not knowingly buy stolen goods. I would not buy goods that I suspected had been stolen. That would make me an accomplice.

AppleDumplingWithCustard · 23/08/2023 15:36

I don’t give either option a thought. It just never enters my head to steal anything!

tolerable · 23/08/2023 15:46

stealing wouldnt ever have appeared as potential option!

5128gap · 23/08/2023 15:58

Cherrysoup · 23/08/2023 14:17

Because it’s arsehole behaviour and unless you’re starving, (well, even then, there are food banks) you shouldn’t steal, it’s just wrong.

Unfortunately you don't just get to pop out to the food bank in the next street and fill your boots.
Most require vouchers that need to be obtained from an issuing agency then an often lengthy trek from one side of a city to another to the one that's open. If you've already had a certain number of food parcels that month (very common given that delays in paying wages or problems with benefit payments are not generally fixed very quickly) you can be refused.
If you've children in tow, no money for bus fares and your poverty results from a long term inability to access funds so its a repeated need.. well, there's always food banks. Until there isn't.

Eskimal · 23/08/2023 15:59

I think theft happens for a few reasons:

  1. Some people aren’t bothered by either consequence. Or they see the consequences as so remote that they don’t care. This remoteness can be in terms of impact to themselves, or their brains considering the possibility of a consequence happening at all (they don’t think they’ll get caught or police won’t bother pressing charges). Or the consequences are simply too far into the future to care: they’re a drug addict with an addiction which is greater than the deterrent which is far into the future, or they have impulsivity problems and their brains simply don’t consider consequences as relevant at that time. These kinds of delayed consequences are at okay when people commit blue collar theft.
  2. weird dopamine feeds. Some people have money to buy stuff but they steal for the thrill (Richard Madeley, Winona Ryder).
  3. necesity. There is no other way to feed my baby.
  4. Custom or culture: it’s what your family do, or corruption - it’s the norm in your country.
SLT11 · 23/08/2023 16:01

It’s never occurred occurred to me to steal. If I see something I like and I don’t have the money my options are always a)Use my credit card, b)use money from my savings, c)wait until payday or d)go without. Honestly whether it’s a small independent store or Tesco, it’s never occurred to me that I could just take something. I’m not well off but I have enough for the essentials so anything else is just “nice to have” … maybe if I was struggling to put food on the table it would be different!

MotherOfGodWeeFella · 23/08/2023 16:02

Option C for me too. A and B are possible reasons why it's wrong but neither would be my motivation for not stealing. I just wouldn't as it's fundamentally dishonest and wrong.

I've been back into shops a couple of times when I've realised I didn't scan something at a self-service till and fessed up!

Doone21 · 23/08/2023 16:04

C. It's just wrong

AuntMarch · 23/08/2023 16:20

C) It isn't mine, and I can live without it.
It doesn't matter how big the business is, theft is theft.

I can only imagine taking something if it were a desperate for food situation, but even then I'd have had to have exhausted every other option and would feel so guilty I'd never actually be able to do it discreetly enough anyway.

FluffletheMeow · 23/08/2023 16:23

Wow, there really are a lot of people who would go with C. "It's just wrong".

For me, morality is not about a set of rules, because it is important to me how these rules came to be. Since I don't consider it likely these rules are hard-coded into us at birth, they must be drilled into us, by our parents and by society. And as PP. have said, some societies have ideas about right and wrong that don't sit right with me. So I prefer to think about things a little more deeply.

Rather I like to think morality is about consequences. So, I don't steal because B. this would result in negative consequences for the business owner (big or small) and the positive consequences for me are not big enough to justify this.

However if my little boy was starving and the consequences of stealing were a small loss for the business holder vs. starvation for my child, I would, of course steal. If I were starving, or in all honesty struggling to make ends meet, that's a more difficult question. And then, possibly, A. fear of being caught might come into it a bit more.

NoSquirrels · 23/08/2023 16:23

thebellagio · 22/08/2023 09:50

Its neither. It literally wouldn't even enter my thought process let alone enter my thought process enough to debate the moral conundrum

This is my answer too. It’s just a given from
early childhood onwards - don’t steal, treat others as you’d wish to be treated, etc

Cherrysoup · 23/08/2023 16:31

5128gap · 23/08/2023 15:58

Unfortunately you don't just get to pop out to the food bank in the next street and fill your boots.
Most require vouchers that need to be obtained from an issuing agency then an often lengthy trek from one side of a city to another to the one that's open. If you've already had a certain number of food parcels that month (very common given that delays in paying wages or problems with benefit payments are not generally fixed very quickly) you can be refused.
If you've children in tow, no money for bus fares and your poverty results from a long term inability to access funds so its a repeated need.. well, there's always food banks. Until there isn't.

Show quote history

More than aware of that, thanks, bit sick of having to explain myself on here today. It’s a hypothetical thread, not referring to a particular incident in the OP.

TheMummy9875 · 23/08/2023 16:35

I was thinking about this for a while .. I don’t think anything in particular stops me from stealing it, it is just something that wouldn’t even cross my mind! It’s not like I would think about it, then something would prevent me. I guess being brought up with a clear understanding of right & wrong

Bikesandbees · 23/08/2023 16:53

It’s more interesting when you ask it about things that have become socially acceptable, like speeding, using a phone while driving, illegal parking, downloading films and TV shows illegally etc. In those situations, it’s very definitely the fear of getting caught that stops people doing it. In fact, especially with driving offences, people often argue and fight against the penalty when they’re caught, because despite breaking the law, they seem to think it’s somehow okay for them to do.

I definitely think we’re not as moral as we think we are, and the fear of getting caught and the fear of being socially shamed is what stops us from doing those things.

(Regarding driving offences, studies have shown that fear of getting caught is more of a deterrent than the severity of the penalty. So more policing would be be more effective to reduce speeding than higher fines for example.)