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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"You guys"

118 replies

BadMotorhomeParent · 21/08/2023 18:19

I hope it isn't only me, and of course, our team of women were fantastic (note: I am not really a football follower - but did watch lot of the match yesterday), BUT, I really hated it this morning when (R4) a message of support and congratulations was broadcast (by the writer of Bend it Like Beckham I believe) and I lost count of how many times she said "You guys"......

If there was ever less of an example of a bunch of guys, it would be when referring to a team comprised 100% of women!

OP posts:
Marblessolveeverything · 21/08/2023 23:15

Well I hate "ladies" or "girls", guys has always been used here to describe a team or group of either or mixed sex 🤷‍♀️.

FeigningConcern · 21/08/2023 23:25

I've always (ie for over 20 years) used "guys" to mean both men and women in this context.

UsingChangeofName · 21/08/2023 23:29

I am more than happy with the term 'guys' to describe a group of people, but someone on MN will be offended whatever collective word is used.

I would probably have said 'girls' - "So proud of those girls" etc - but there are posters on MN that get apoplectic when that term is used.
'Ladies' doesn't sound right to me (nor many others n this thread it seems).
Guys is fine by mean. Language evolves and it is used for 'a group of people' nowadays rather than men.

Clefable · 21/08/2023 23:32

The undertaker we used for my mum called me pal all the time (we are in Scotland), I actually found it weirdly comforting and reassuring. He was a big bear of a man, just one of those people who you feel 'safe' around, if that makes sense. Not really on topic, a PP just reminded me of it.

I don't care about 'guys' but generally try to use 'folks'. I do sometimes use 'guys' to round up errant children actually. 'RIGHT, GUYS, TIME TO TIDY UP'.

FeigningConcern · 21/08/2023 23:33

Iphianassa · 21/08/2023 22:59

I am old and used to being thought of as the second sex. Male as default, “man embraces women”, and so on, etc.

“Guys” does not include me. “Women” or “people” does.

I’m a secondary school teacher. If I were addressing a school group I might say “everyone” “y9” “people” or perhaps “class.”
I probably wouldn’t say “girls” and/or “boys” unless they were y7 or perhaps y8. I might say “ladies” or “gentlemen” in a very slightly chastising way up to y11 (eg “hurry up, ladies”).

I have a colleague who says “peeps” (short for people?) but I find that a bit twee.

I used to also use "peeps" . Used to be popular in the 90s - comes from Harry Enfield playing Stavros.

NoPazuzu · 21/08/2023 23:33

I've always used guys to refer to any group of people, I have done for decades and so do people around me. My mum used to refer to me and my sister as guys back in the dark ages when we were children. Also folks, which I once saw a thread on mumsnet complaining about.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that mumsnet isn't real life.

ThinWomansBrain · 21/08/2023 23:34

I find it far less offensive than 'girls' which I have heard endlessly on broadcast media- I presume they are all adults in their 20's.
Ladies a definite NO
'Hey, women' sounds a bit odd

I even find lionesses in itself a bit weird - in the sense of most female actors dodge the label "actress"

Don't really see what's wrong with "Hey, Footballers" TBH

Mumof2teens79 · 21/08/2023 23:35

I have been told some women object when it's used in a mixed group as they think it excludes them. But I can't help but use it as my kids use it...its really common in US kids TV.
If used for a group of women it's clearly not overlooking those women is it.

I have also heard women object to being called ladies, girls, peeps, folks and many other things, you can't please everyone.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 21/08/2023 23:37

As you can see OP, there is no one word that will keep everyone happy.

So it’s your turn to be offended when someone says ‘guys’, and my turn to be offended when someone says ‘ladies’. And virtually everyone’s turn when someone says ‘yous’.

Swings and roundabouts!

bladebladebla1 · 21/08/2023 23:37

Hope you're ok

LaPerduta · 21/08/2023 23:40

malmi · 21/08/2023 18:51

Guy is traditionally used to refer to a man but it is slowly becoming neutral when used in the plural and then just means people. It comes from Guy Fawkes who was a person.

A male person!

surreygirl1987 · 21/08/2023 23:43

I am so fed up of people getting worked up over semantics and word choice.

But language matters. Language is not just a representation of thought, but it also influences thought. Read some Orwell.

OP, I'm with you.

DiscoBeat · 21/08/2023 23:45

Obviously the meaning has changed - it really doesn't just mean men these days.

coffy11 · 21/08/2023 23:48

surreygirl1987 · 21/08/2023 23:43

I am so fed up of people getting worked up over semantics and word choice.

But language matters. Language is not just a representation of thought, but it also influences thought. Read some Orwell.

OP, I'm with you.

Yes language matters. The message it sends is that men are the default and women just have to fit around that. It may seem trivial but it's not really.

It's this everyday sexism that's really hard to change as you can see from this post where people don't see that it's a bit deal.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 21/08/2023 23:59

Those who agree with the OP - which word would you use?

Iphianassa · 22/08/2023 00:16

FeigningConcern · 21/08/2023 23:33

I used to also use "peeps" . Used to be popular in the 90s - comes from Harry Enfield playing Stavros.

Show quote history

That makes sense. The colleague was a teenager in the 90s and probably watched Harry Enfield.

MysteryBelle · 22/08/2023 00:17

I use the word guys as a neutral term like mankind etc. But I can see your point at the same time. You know what’s worse than that though? Being called a dude 😂 There is absolutely nothing dude-like about me, a petite small boned female with feminine features and mannerisms. I guess some think of that word as all encompassing but I’m like, I’m not your dude. 😂😂

Iphianassa · 22/08/2023 00:18

CrazyArmadilloLady · 21/08/2023 23:59

Those who agree with the OP - which word would you use?

Team, players, footballers…

Isittimeformynapyet · 22/08/2023 00:25

I do say "you guys" but cringe afterwards. I don't think I use gender terms that much. I hope I just say things like;

"have you all decided what you'd like?"

"I'm having a night out with friends"

"Hi/hello everyone"

And if I found myself on R4 discussing the success of our Women's national football team or send them a message I hope I'd say "they/you were amazing", "we're all proud of you" etc. as the listener would presumably know anyway.

It's often not necessary to say guys, ladies, gentlemen, girls or yous at all.

Cailleachian · 22/08/2023 00:26

I hate "you guys". I hate HATE HATE it.

It is actively used to exclude women, some women think that it includes them, but it doesnt. When a man says "you guys" in his head he is really talking to the other men, the women just happen to be listening in.

Isittimeformynapyet · 22/08/2023 00:46

This reminds me of an ex-colleague (I was her manager) who used to call every older male customer "young man" and every older female "young lady". I tried to explain to her that this was patronising and there was no need to confirm the customers' gender for them as they were no doubt fully aware. It was so ingrained in her that she simply couldn't stop.

One day a young person came in who clearly wished to present as female. She served them in her usual friendly way but then said "thank you, young man" when giving them their change.

AnneAnon · 22/08/2023 00:53

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 21/08/2023 19:20

I bloody hate it but if I am called "guys" in a work meeting ( mixed sex) I look at my curves , hoist my bosom and say "Guys 'n' Gals"

I don't make it an "I'm offended" thing but I make a quip about it .

dies from cringe 😬

GrumpyPanda · 22/08/2023 01:26

BadMotorhomeParent · 21/08/2023 19:42

But the women's England football team is not a mixed group.

To ponder further (although only slightly connected, but there are (bigger) issues n the sporting world around gender....) - one wonders how people who "become" women/identify as women or whatever the correct term is would appreciate being then included under a group of "guys"??

Show quote history

No need to wonder. We know for a fact (since they're trumpeting it all over the internet) that the wannabe women are all gurrrrls.

Raquelos · 22/08/2023 01:36

BadMotorhomeParent · 21/08/2023 19:30

I very very rarely (almost never) say this - but; whatever.

Show quote history

Thanks for summarising my point so beautifully in just one word. 😂

Brefugee · 22/08/2023 08:32

I'm not in the business of letting people police my language so I wouldn't be deterred from using "guys", which has developed into a neutral colloquialism, because someone else may resist the tides of change and choose to be offended.

well that is, of course, your prerogative. Good luck with that these days tho 😆

However. If you want something from me: a tip, or a service, you will be ignored if you persist in referring to me as "guy/s" and that will be your look out not mine.

"ladies" drives me batty, but i had a lot of that in the Army, either patronisingly or just as a general term of address that made it abundantly clear we weren't men.
"girls" for grown women? just no.

When i address a room of people, or write a multi-addressee email with mixed-sexes? Hello everyone is fine.

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