Culpability of consultants in Letby case

[curaçao]

Why did any of the 7 consultants who suspected Letby nit go to the police themselves? If you had strong suspicions that someone had committed murders, wouldn't you feel you had a strong moral duty to go to the police? OK maybe it was protocol to report it to managers, but surely they had a moral duty to whistleblow and report their suspicions to the police
But they are trying very hard to deflect blame onto managers who wouldn't even have known Letby nor understood the medical stuff

Why are people accusing the OP of being a troll? You might not like her opinion but she is equally entitled to it as the troll hunters and is making a logical argument for her case.

Might I remind you that other opinions are not only allowed, but are equally valid. Absolute shocker for some clearly.

@Sunnydays41 what facts? Even after all the deaths, they considered natural causes, the pathologist was not expecting to find foul play either. It took until 2018 for her to be arrested the first time and she was released . They looked at other people, other possibilities.She was finally arrested in 2020. What do you think the outcome would've been with the first three deaths, just a suspicion about incompetence rather than murder and not much of a pattern.Especially if the hospital closed ranks and said it had been investigated by them and it's all good.

They didn't just think she was incompetent though...

The fact that there was a sharp increase in the death rate, the fact that there was a common denominator across the cases, the fact that these were sudden and unexpected deaths (all were previously stable and one happened on the baby's release day!).

Pretty much everything that Dr Brearey went over with the senior police officers when they were brought in that led to them wanting to open the case that they did.

Perhaps there wasn't much of a pattern after the first three (the doctors weren't suspecting murder then anyway), but perhaps after the fourth, fifth or sixth when they were...

Initially they did, and of course, you would. You wouldn't leap to there is a serial killer nurse. The consultant interviewed on panorama said exactly this, at first we worried about competence.

Complete naivety. Far from
that simple.

There needs to be proper, presumably
criminal investigations into those they blew the whistle to.

Yes, I've had similar said to me as well, I've seen awful racism and homophobia covered up.
NHS managers have a lot more power than the medical consultants do. They will also do anything to cover up data/mistakes/anything that discredits their Trust.
I have a lot more faith in my local constabulary than I do in NHS executives, that's for sure.

Yes, obviously initially they did, but they then did realise. Why else would they request that the police were brought in because "they were all under suspicion" and that the police were the only ones who could look at all factors, including their lives outside of work?

Even by October 2015, they suspected her.

BBC News:

*But by October 2015, things had changed. Two more babies had died and Letby had been on shift for both of them.

By this point, Dr Brearey had become concerned Letby might be harming babies.*

@Sunnydays41 multiple attempts have been made on this thread to explain why they didn’t call the police. Do you work in the NHS? Or any other organisation that has a similar structure to the NHS?
Unless you saw LL wielding a knife over a baby, you cannot call the police if you have concerns. It is simply not how it works. Management would likely close ranks and refer you to your governing body like the GMC, NMC etc.

No, but I did used to work in the police.

So, if someone suspects someone of anything illegal, including murder they are not allowed to go to the police?!

Well, there needs to be some serious changes made to procedure when illegality is suspected.

There have been numerous accusations about police forces being corrupt over the years, but perhaps NHS trusts need to be given the same scrutiny.

@Sunnydays41 That’s exactly right. You cannot go to the police.
There is a clear chain of command in terms of how things are supposed to be reported. You report to line manager, who reports to a manager above them, then an investigation is triggered at some point etc.

But yes I agree, people should not be at risk of losing their livelihood if they report a potential crime, but many whistleblowers have gone through hell in recent times! An example is Dr Chris Day. Someone posted a list of others upthread.

If I know absolutely fuck all about an extremely contentious, controversial and upsetting topic I avoid starting an opinionated thread about it. It’s a
ways stood me in good stead.

It is categorically unlawful to tell employees they cannot go to the police.( I am not saying of course employers might not try to manage people out using other trumped up reasons).But at the end of the day, ghese very vulnerable patients were 100% dependent on the doctors who were responsible fir them, and those doctors put their careers before their lives.

The police investigation took from the initial contact from COCH May 2017 to the trial date in 2022. Clearly a huge amount of investigative work and prep for the trial. It’s very complex. Some posters seem to think it’s easy like a tv show! To succeed in bringing a prosecution there has to be watertight evidence.

Lucy Letby is a convicted murderer-fact

consultants raised multiple concerns about babies dying, which were dismissed by management several times and threats made with disbarment-fact

that no one who worked with Letby thought she was murdering babies is established. The Consultants weren’t the only professionals there. Numerous professional bodies investigated and did not point to deliberate harm or murder by Letby-in fact they found for her, resulting in consultants being forced to apologise to her for supposed bullying and a witch hunt.

What no one seems to understand or have knowledge of is that the Consultants no longer have the power or influence they used to have. They have been marginalised by management and bureaucracy and are undermined consistently. They remain in constant fear for their professional livelihoods and are no longer even allowed to comment negatively on anyone, including trainees for example; (as discussed above by someone stating the trouble they had for not allowing a student to progress) Whistle blowing and coming against that is close to impossible.

it it easy with hindsight to make assumptions about why no one went to police but would anyone not immediately consider murder rather than a mistake when they had worked with a person for years and to all records considered her a friend?

The whole issue around reporting needs looking out without all of the current work subjects around bullying etc. it is not bullying to suggest that someone is not competent to do the job and supervisor’s should not be pressured to allow someone to continue who should not. There is more that needs looking at here and need addressing.

It was a whole different scenario, because it was senior management who actually asked the police to investigate.

@daliesque What you write is the truth. People have no idea until they see it with their own eyes. You are obviously lacking in the self awareness that others are sadly not, so I can imagine you make a great CD.

With poor staff retention, people are being promoted above their competence without the support and supervision to upskill. So it gets worse (at all levels of clinical management).

I hope this shines a light on the systemic problems across the NHS which did not cause- but did not stop - this murder spree. I honestly believe that we would have a much more efficient and effective healthcare system, with better outcomes for patients, if we address these unsaid truths about culture and management.

@daliesque not lacking!! I meant you DO have self awareness and I commend you for what you shared here. Thank you x

I think if you've not worked in the NHS you can't understand the pressure, the gaslighting and the fear of how things can affect you. They were promised things would be investigated, examined and actioned taken, but these things take time (even the police took 12 months to arrest her). In this instance the senior managers DIDN'T eventually do things they were advised needed doing. I really don't think fault could be found with the consultants who as far as I know WHERE the ones who went to the Police when things promised didn't materialise.

This a million times over.

@AgathaMystery Spot on.

@Salacia great post!

The hospital eventually went to the police.