Culpability of consultants in Letby case

[curaçao]

Why did any of the 7 consultants who suspected Letby nit go to the police themselves? If you had strong suspicions that someone had committed murders, wouldn't you feel you had a strong moral duty to go to the police? OK maybe it was protocol to report it to managers, but surely they had a moral duty to whistleblow and report their suspicions to the police
But they are trying very hard to deflect blame onto managers who wouldn't even have known Letby nor understood the medical stuff

A woman kills lots of babies... lets blame the men!

It wasn’t a ‘veiled’ threat. The new manager says that when she took over, she was specifically told there might well need to be a referral of the consultants to the GMC. Basically the old manager was careful to try and prejudice her against the complaining doctors and to try and get her to initiate a procedure that is known to drive doctors to suicide. Luckily she didn’t fall for it

FFS - What difference does that make? But for your information - no they were not all men. One of the 4 consultants was female - and TWO of the three senior Management Staff were female

It was one busy junior doctor who didn't happen to pick up one anomalous factor that the lab itself hadn't picked up. Can you guarantee that you never, ever make mistakes in your job, OP?

The doctors feared being reported to the GMC more than they feared further deaths of babies. The management were terrible and cared more about their reputation. Who was the registrar she was loved up with who was called in for emergencies and why is he allowed to be anonymous? Yes she was the murderer but no one comes out of it well.

I'm no expert, but I would have thought it vital for nurses on these units to be able to intubate quickly if a baby needs it. If a tiny baby isn't breathing, they don't really have the luxury of time to wait for other people to leave what they're doing to supervise.

I don't think the fear of a report to the GMC was the deciding factor that people on here are making out.

I think they would have been well aware that, if they did go to the police, the police would immediately speak to management. Management would have told the police that they were clinicians, they had already looked into it thoroughly and were satisfied that no crime was involved. They might well have thrown around accusations that the consultants were bullying the nurses etc. How confident can anyone be that a busy police force would have continued with the investigation in those circumstances? So for the consultants it would have been the worst of all worlds - no investigation, and they get removed from their posts leaving inexperienced replacements and, in particular, leaving Letby with free reign to carry right on.

It's so easy to pass judgment with hindsight from the comfort of your sofa, but few if any of us have all the relevant facts, let alone the relevant expert knowledge.

Why do we need to know the registrar's name? Exactly what difference would it make?

Of course the management should take most of the blame here (other than Letby herself of course). But put things in simple terms:

(1) You have reasonable suspicion that multiple people have been unlawfully killed.
(2) Your boss tells you he will sack you if you go to the police about it.

How is going to the police not the morally correct thing to do?

The mantra of the medical profession is to deny and cover up at all costs. Anyone raising concerns is shut down and threatened.

It's a great big club that the patients are not in. When we go into hospital, we end up on the end of a coin flip as to whether we will be helped or harmed.

Do you seriously think that the police would have done anything if the management had insisted that they had thoroughly investigated, and that it was merely a case of consultants bullying a nurse? If so, you are deluded.

Good to know if I murder someone at work the police won't bother investigating if my boss thinks I'm too nice a person to have done it. Because that's how it works, apparently.

I think they would have been well aware that, if they did go to the police, the police would immediately speak to management.

So when they did go to the police, is that what the police did? I thought the police didn't initially think she was definitely the culprit @JanieEyre?

At least some of the managers would be clinicians and perfectly able to understand the "medical stuff".

I’ve wondered about this also

I kind of agree … the managers were awful but come on, some things are more important

Nail on the head!

The doctors knew if they went to the police there would be more “nothing to see here” from the executive team. Personally I think the consultants are the only ones to emerge from this with an ounce of integrity. The guy on Panorama looks utterly broken.

Yabu and trolling.

The panorama documentary makes the point that "to their credit despite being threatened" they continued to push and say there was a problem.

If they had gone to the police sooner, without management being on board the chances are they wouldn't have been listened to anyway as they would have shut down the police.

They couldn't do anything until it reached a point that management could no longer deny the problem.

But doesn’t everyone who is intubated have a metal instrument forced down their throat? And wouldn’t it cause extensive damage to a baby under normal circumstances? Was this particular baby intubated when he/she collapsed? There’s a lot of missing information here that could add some context.

The consultants were dismissed, belittled, threatened, bullied, coerced, and gaslit. And still they pushed to try to safeguard the babies. They even told CQC that they were trying to raise safeguarding concerns and being ignored. They're the only ones that come out of this with honour intact.

Drs tried to raise the alarm by following the correct procedures. They are not at fault. The higher ups are the ones to investigate. Policies and procedures were inadequate.

Not mentioned yet on here, but there was a meeting in July 2015 with the head of nursing and some consultants in which suspicions about Letby were raised. This was after three babies had died within two weeks.

Those of you wondering about the NHS senior managers who attempted to shut this case down so many times have evidently not worked in the NHS recently. For every conscientious manager at this level there are at least a dozen who are only in it for the awards ceremonies and the PR opportunities. Freedom to speak up staff are routinely silenced, ostracized, and frozen out and the HR departments supposed to support them are often staffed by utter witches, and incompetent, spiteful, underqualified ones at that.

The north west in particular seems to have made this into a fine art. Not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere but in the north west of England cases seem to happen with alarming regularity.

In this particular case I suspect there is so much more to come out still and I'm very curious about the role of the father in threatening to report the consultants to the GMC as from the evidence so far apit seems to be after he threw a tantrum effectively on behalf of his precious little girl that the managers really stopped doing their job.

They didn't known that and you don't either.I think if they were approached by several consultants on a unit with a,suspicion of murder backed up by the circumstantial evidence ( ie large increase in unexplained deaths and the same nurse on duty every time) they would have had no choice but to havevtaken it seriously .The police would have had no reason to pander to hospital management