To ask if you think is might be having a bigger impact than I realised

[Blueey]

Or is this just life with children?

I have 2 DCs, 8 and 6.
8yo was always a troubled sleeper and we coslept in the end as the only way to get some rest. Multiple wake ups every night for a really really long time, then DC2 was born and the pattern continued as it does with a newborn, but this time with both kids. However DC2 tended to sleep better than DC1, who was still regularly needing me to sit with him back to sleep multiple times a night at 4/5 years old.

Fast forward to now and I'm still not getting unbroken sleep. The issue is now more my 6yo, he usually wakes up at least once a night but often twice or three times. He will not settle back to sleep in his bed unless I sit with him and I'm so tired I tend to fall asleep curled in a ball at the bottom of his bed, waking up 30 - 60 mins later and returning to my own bed. So it's not uncommon for my night to be:

10pm fall asleep
12am wake up to settle dc2
12.45am wake up on dc2 bed and return to my bed
2.30am wake up to settle dc2
3am wake up on dc2 bed and return to my bed
6.30am up for the day

Sometimes there could be a third wake up in there too.

8yo will sometimes also ask me to help him back to bed if he wakes up but at least that's just tuck in, kiss and go now.

In the 8 years I've been a mum I think I've had very very very few nights of unbroken sleep. Impossible to quantify really but it's really not much. At the end of last year I slept on a mattress in the kids room for 3 months just to get some proper sleep and did actually. So that might have upped my number. It wasn't comfortable though as it was a fold out mattress so my back ached. It seemed to help the wake ups with DC2 for a while though but now we're back where we were.

DH doesn't wake up. If I want him to do it I have to wake him and ask him to go do it, which sort of feels it defeats the point as I'm awake by then, plus I hate asking as it makes me feel like I'm then somehow responsible for neither of us sleeping. He works a physical job that he has to leave at 7am for so I also tend to feel bad in that regard. I also work, in a known stressful job, but only three days a week and I start after I've dropped DCs at school. But of course his working pattern means I do all the morning routine and school runs too.

Anyway I feel unhappy a lot and this morning I completely lost my shit ranting at all of them. I feel trapped all the time and honestly like I'm losing my mind a bit. I've thought it's just me but maybe it's the sleep?

YABU - sleepless nights is part and parcel of having kids
YANBU - those nights sound particularly unusual/awful

What happens if you go away? I’d check into a hotel for a couple of nights and leave them all to it!

Failing that, melatonin. If you can’t get it prescribed, get someone you know who’s off to the States to get you some.

I think you are finding many excuses. Sorry if that’s harsh - I really don’t mean it to be! You must be knackered - and it’s much easier to excuse the situation than it is to change it. I get it completely.

But you need to find some strength - and I would start with telling DH that he is doing night duty every other night. I get you don’t want to ask a but I suspect he’s got into a state of mind that you don’t mind doing it - or is choosing not to acknowledge the impact on you.

Or go away for a couple of nights - a cheap hotel, parents, a friend. Let DH see how bad it is! I’m guessing he really doesn’t realise - or is giving it much thought.

We just all act like mummy is a bit of a depressive nut.

What?? You haven’t had a good nights sleep for 8 years and you all joke about the effects it’s having in you?

You also say you shouldn’t have to tell dh what he needs to do, that may be correct but as he’s not helping, you obviously NEED to tell him for the sake of your mental and physical health.
Lack of sleep is serious, you need to sit down, have a proper conversation with H and sort it out together.

I have two similar kids although our sleep is a lot better, but was dreadful for years.

One thought - maybe your 6yo is doing this because these wake ups are when he gets your undivided time and attention, as your eldest takes most of it during the day? (no judgment, same in our house). We don’t get the wakeups but our younger one does reappear a lot after bedtime which I suspect is partly due to this.

If you think this is possibly true then perhaps a dedicated one on one time slot for him might help. Who does bedtime, is it just you or is DH around too? can you give dc2 a one to one bedtime?

Just a thought - if your 6yo was fine at 3/4/5 and this is fairly recent, does he maybe have his 6 year molars coming in? They can be really painful (basically just like teething again). I'm quite quick to try a dose of calpol for most issues though!

I feel for you OP and also think some of the replies are a bit harsh. Some kids are just crap sleepers. I'm a bit like you, into my 7th year now of broken sleep virtually every night. Mine are 6, 3 and 3. 6yo sleeps fairly well AT LAST but still wakes up with nightmares at least once a week. Twins share but wake up shouting for us regularly. One or both normally in our bed in the wee hours. We don't bother putting them back, too much effort.

With the 6yo, he went through months of being scared of the dark, fighting sleep, begging us to stay with him (he rarely comes in with us any more). I don't know if this is an issue for you, but with him I spent a lot of time explaining that the monsters (or whatever) are in his head. That if he thinks of an orange, he can 'see' it in his mind, and it's the same thing. Not real. Can we eat the orange? No. Can the monster hurt you? No. Practise pretending to zap monsters or put silly hats on them or thinking of something else like your favourite Octonauts in order etc etc. This was mostly at bedtime but repeated if he woke at night. I think it has helped because he talks about it in the morning sometimes, that he woke up scared but he zapped the monster with a bazooka (or whatever ) so it was fine.

With the twins, we just cosleep because they are younger but I do think it's worth talking more to the 6yo to try to find out what's scaring him or making him sob. Maybe you can come up with some technique he can use himself when he wakes?

This is exactly what we used to do. We left a duvet on the floor in the corner of our room. Any of the dc who felt lonely or scared could come in and snuggle into it, but they were not to wake us up. We always left a night light on the landing.
That worked well.

Can you pinpoint when DC2 started sleeping badly?

Sounds crazy OP.

how about a yoto which tells stories at bedtime
plus white noise machine
plus camp in your room.
plus telling them that you are too tired and cannot get up so they can come in but not wake you up unless they are ill
plus give up waiting for you DH to ‘step up’ and tell him to take over for a weekend.

plus read Dr Laura Markham - she’s fab and very helpful

This is what we did...

Bedtime passes
If you think the not sleeping is a psychological thing then you could try something called bedtime tokens / bedtime passes. Start with a family meeting, draw up some sleep rules, get your child to suggest and draw them to give them some ownership.

Agree a reward. We used playmobil, I bought a camping set and split it all up, put the names of all the bits on individual slips of paper in a pot.

Make loads of tokens together. I mean loads. If the child gets up at bedtime or calls you in the night then that's absolutely fine and allowed, but costs 1 token. Put them in a pot by their bed. If there are tokens left in the morning, the child gets a reward. My daughters was whichever bit of the playmobil set was written on the slip of paper she drew out. Like a tombola. One day it would be a person or horse, the next day a fork or spoon! High stakes...

For the first few nights the child needs to succeed. So you need more tokens than they will use. My Daughter used more than 30 the first night. When they're in the swing of it, start to gradually reduce the number of tokens. It took us a few weeks to get down to 6. My daughter started to fail a few times and had to try. We got stuck at this level a while. Eventually we got down to 3 and at some point the system was gradually forgotten.

You can look this up, I believe it's called bedtime passes and there's a few articles out there.

It was recommended by a private sleep consultant

I've always very much felt kids don't stop having needs at night, hence I always get up and sit with him to settle him.

And right now they need to learn to sleep on their own.

Bloody hell of course you are feeling awful! That is torture.
Can you stay away somewhere for at least 3 nights? Get some sleep. DH either sorts them out or the kids realise they just have to get on with sleep by themselves. Worth a try. And you at least get 3 nights sleep