Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel affected by the Lucy Letby case

62 replies

GemGi · 19/08/2023 02:55

I gave birth to my first DC in April. During my pregnancy there was lots on the news about Lucy Letby. One thing I explicitly told DH was if anything happened to me during childbirth, not to let DC out of his sight and to ask what each and every thing (if anything) was being done to DC and why. I was absolutely terrified. DC is nearly 5 months now and all this Lucy Letby stuff in the news feels really grim. I can't bear to watch/read about it. It makes me feel sick and so nervous and scared for babies and parents. I wonder if I've developed some kind of anxiety.

AIBU to feel this way? The entire story is sickening and scary and sad so I don't know if I am BU..?

OP posts:
CClaire · 19/08/2023 23:21

I was talking to dh about this and he pointed out that it’s such a shame that 99.999999% of paediatric nurses are in it for the right reasons and yet she’s brought the whole lot of them into disrepute through the actions of one completely anomalous nutter and now their jobs are going to be so much harder when really we should be recognising that she’s not representative of them in any way. It’s just hard to get past the mind blowing aspect of it though.

IWasFunBeforeMum · 19/08/2023 23:24

My first child was born at the countess the year after she was stopped and it's chilled me watching it all. Those poor poor families.

Friggingfrog · 19/08/2023 23:27

I think it’s normal to be affected by the case- it’s unthinkable cruelty. CoCH is one of my local hospitals. I didn’t have my kids there but my sister and friends did around that time, with one friends baby being in nicu there in 2015. Lots of people where I am know of people affected and it’s so close to home I can’t get it out of my mind. Just have to remind yourself that it isn’t the norm and like a pp says 99.999999% of nurses are trustworthy and doing the job to help people. She is an outlier and is safely behind bars now.

Lou670 · 19/08/2023 23:27

It hasn't affected me because I have a baby/young child. It has affected me as one of my babies is now a paediatric nurse! 😕

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 19/08/2023 23:42

I'm so so glad that I didn't hear about her before I had DS earlier this year, my anxiety would have been through the roof. There is so much that is done that is barely explained

HeddaGarbled · 19/08/2023 23:48

I think it’s healthier not to want to read all the details. People who read it all avidly are prurient and a bit warped, IMO. Of course it’s upsetting.

Hunkydorybalamory · 20/08/2023 00:06

@Yellowlegobrick

HDU is often cubicled. ICU environments are mostly not, for good reasons (which I'll come to).

So we are are talking 8+ critically or at least seriously unwell babies in one room with constant alarms. Parents and babies who have a need for privacy and dignity at critical moments (which may require the other parents to leave the room). Staff who need to perform safely and effectively whilst they undertake technically challenging high stakes procedures, and could not reasonably do or even have space to move if being being scrutinised by 8+ sets of parents. Parents could get no sleep at all, having parent beds would be almost pointless. Babies are in these nurseries sometimes for weeks-months.

So there's no way parents could sleep next to their babies in a non-partitioned (eg open plan) NICU setting (other than in the low intensity feeding, growing and soon to go home nurseries - in which case there is already a big drive for this but it is limited by the need to overhaul the physical layout of units / space available which often isn't logistically possible). Even if it were logistically possible to introduce partitioned ICU spaces (eg cubicles) to allow 24/7 parent presence with facilities for sleep - this approach would come with inherent safety risks in an ICU setting (reduced oversight of critically unwell patients, difficulty re where to keep lifesaving equipment - the more duplicates of critical equipment there are the more likely a stock or settings error, but you ideally want this equipment immediately to hand and in the same room as critically unwell patients).

Also, the approach of partitioning medical spaces could counterproductively increase the risk of malicious harm by increasing the opportunities for perpetrators to be alone and unwitnessed with a patient.

The truth is that injecting air into an IV line is easy and takes seconds. You could probably do it whilst a parent was awake at the bedside and they may not be aware. You could easily do it whilst they were asleep.

The only thing I can think of on a systems level to tackle the issue of medical serial killers is to embed a formalised process of asking "could this be a serial killer?" into the SI review process. Every single unexpected death is investigated but the question of whether it is a serial killer is not likely to be asked. But there are risks also to this approach - the possible effects on staff morale, the possible effects on staff relationships (because generally, respect, empathy and trust make teams more effective at keeping patients safe but these are effectively barriers to identifying a colleague as a serial killer), the possible room for abuse (imagine such an investigative approach being weaponised against a whistleblower for example), the possible damage to systems focused culture (which is more likely to result in system change and improved patient safety vs individual blame culture which makes people afraid to reflect honestly on mistakes and why they occur, and ultimately reduces patient safety). So it's a quandary. I guess maybe there could be national mandatory safeguarding guidance on when to involve the police (or potentially some specialised expert professional whose entire job is to look for evidence of medical serial killers?) - eg if insulin OD is suggested or plausible, if unexpected deaths cross a certain threshold, if a member of staff feels concerned about it, if there is an identifiable but unexplained pattern of some kind to the deaths. I think it is very hard to systemically detect/prevent something so rare and so different to other patient safety hazards (and the overzealous pursuit of which could potentially increase those other less dramatic but more impactful hazards).

Sorry didn't mean to ramble on.

reesewithoutaspoon · 20/08/2023 00:22

There are already systems in place to monitor for unexpected deaths the PIMS score and Mbrace in neonates. They predict expected mortality using algorithms based on observations at admission. All units should be monitoring their mortality rates. You compare your predicted mortality Vs your actual mortality and any variance should be investigated.
The sudden rise at coch was noted by the clinicians quite early on. It was the failure of management to recognise how serious it was and to act on it. There should have been serious case reviews and mortality and morbidity meetings.
Going from 3 death's a year to 3 per month was a huge increase and a massive warning sign that something was seriously wrong

Mammadibambini · 20/08/2023 01:42

You’re not being unreasonable.

my baby is 1 year now and I feel it too. I was suspicious of harm coming to her and I hadn’t heard about this case at that time. I wouldn’t let her go anywhere without my partner. He went with them when they put her nappy on etc. She’s the most precious thing in the world to me and i didn’t trust strangers with her when she was just born.

That being said if you’re struggling with these feelings and they’re affecting your everyday please reach out to your local perinatal mental health team.

coxesorangepippin · 20/08/2023 02:25

I agree with a lot that's been said on here

What surprises me the most is her motive. I just cannot get over it at all. No doubt it's power and a god complex.

But how easily she was accepted and trusted and believed. We judge people too easily on their appearance

Those poor parents of those poor children. My heart is absolutely with them all

tempgernard · 20/08/2023 03:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Azaleah · 20/08/2023 03:10

Is there anything REASONABLE about this case? No. It's perfectly reasonable to be UNREASONABLE. Don't let this feeling control you but learn how to be vigilant.

ShippingNews · 20/08/2023 03:32

Shoxfordian · 19/08/2023 07:14

I do think you’re a little unreasonable because it’s not as though there are killer nurses across the country in every hospital; letby was a dangerous exception but most nurses want to help you and your baby

But it isn't unreasonable. The horrible fact is that if LL had been more restrained, and had killed less often, it probably wouldn't have ever been detected. She could have got away with it for many years. And how do we know that there are not other "killer nurses across the country" doing this ? The fact is that we don't know. Personally I think we need CCTV cameras in these units to deter wrong doing.

Roselilly36 · 20/08/2023 05:01

YANBU OP, my two DS’ are adults now but the case has affected me too.

floribunda18 · 20/08/2023 05:04

YANBU. When you have children it's completely normal to be more upset about things involving children.

spitefulandbadgrammar · 20/08/2023 05:49

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 19/08/2023 23:42

I'm so so glad that I didn't hear about her before I had DS earlier this year, my anxiety would have been through the roof. There is so much that is done that is barely explained

A complete stranger walked up to me when I was pregnant last year, smiled at my bump, then unrolled a newspaper with a Lucy Letby front page and waved it in my face going “Doesn’t it make you think?” I’d deliberately avoided the case until then but this woman wouldn’t let it drop and I had to waddle away and cry.

JMSA · 20/08/2023 05:54

For your own sake, you need to move on. What happened is extremely rare, and it didn't happen to you.

SouthernBel · 20/08/2023 06:04

It's natural and understandable, I am so triggered by it as well as so many others will be. My child spent the best part of a year after they were born in critical care, and thinking about Lucy Letby makes my blood run cold. When I think how much my husband and I relied on the nurses, both for their expertise and emotional support, it makes me feel sick. My DC was on a series of very complex medications which would need administered through drivers and ports for hours at a time multiple times a day. After a while we stopped asking what they were getting and just had absolute faith in the nurses. When I'd fall asleep in my chair next to their bed at night I'd sometimes come to and they'd be plugged into another driver getting their medicine, and I'd slept through the nurses hooking them up to this and starting the medicine. They would flush lines and everything. To know that LL so deeply abused that trust and did what she did just destroys me. Such depths of evil. I'm consuming everything I can about the case to try and work through something in my mind, but I don't really know what. It's heart shattering. Look after yourself and talk to people when you need to x

AvocadotoastORahouse · 22/08/2023 19:53

@spitefulandbadgrammar ShockShockShock that's just awful!! That person was horrible!

NewYorkFirstTimer · 22/08/2023 20:05

I can't stop thinking about her parents. Probably because their situation is similar to my own. I'm an only child, very close to my Mum and Dad as she was. Adored by them as she was. Three of us all go on holiday together, they are so proud of me. For the life of me I cannot understand how she could put them through such an incredible, unfixable nightmare. What will happen to them now? Will they be offered witness protection?

For the record I know sympathies are first and foremost towards the families of the deceased victims. I'm just looking at it from another perspective that's all.

Idtotallybangdreamoftheendlessnotgonnalie · 22/08/2023 20:06

SouthernBel · 20/08/2023 06:04

It's natural and understandable, I am so triggered by it as well as so many others will be. My child spent the best part of a year after they were born in critical care, and thinking about Lucy Letby makes my blood run cold. When I think how much my husband and I relied on the nurses, both for their expertise and emotional support, it makes me feel sick. My DC was on a series of very complex medications which would need administered through drivers and ports for hours at a time multiple times a day. After a while we stopped asking what they were getting and just had absolute faith in the nurses. When I'd fall asleep in my chair next to their bed at night I'd sometimes come to and they'd be plugged into another driver getting their medicine, and I'd slept through the nurses hooking them up to this and starting the medicine. They would flush lines and everything. To know that LL so deeply abused that trust and did what she did just destroys me. Such depths of evil. I'm consuming everything I can about the case to try and work through something in my mind, but I don't really know what. It's heart shattering. Look after yourself and talk to people when you need to x

My 6 month old baby was in hospital for a week with chicken pox and was on IV antivirals and antibiotics. I quickly learned to sleep/doze through the middle of the night IV stuff for my own sanity and that was only for a week. I'm sure if have been even more blaise for a year's worth of hospital stay, but I'm now wondering if I should be horrified at how trusting I was with the nurses and letting them get on with it.

Triplixate · 22/08/2023 20:08

I had a NICU baby in 2022 and all I can say is that I am glad it was all over (positively thankfully) by the time this case made the news. We trusted the nurses and doctors implicitly but I’m not sure we would have left baby’s side if the case was in court at the time. We’ve spent a lot of time in the past week discussing the amazing neonatal nurses we encountered during our time there and how grateful we are for them.

Ettings · 22/08/2023 20:20

That story about the baby kidnapped by a woman posing as a nurse in a South African hospital was in the news year ago when I had my eldest. I was similarly anxious when I gave birth. You just can't contemplate such a thing happening. It's beyond evil.

Gellhell · 22/08/2023 20:23

I considered countess of Chester hospital for my second birth. My mum must have had an intuition and told me not to. I'm so glad I stuck with the small hospital.

Coffeaddict · 22/08/2023 20:40

It's absolutely normal to think what ifs. I was towards the end of my pregnancy when the news broke and it added a layer of worry going in.

My 3 year old ended up in NIQU for a week, he was on antibiotics so in what they called a transition ward. They would bring him down to niqu for treamtment but he slept on the ward with me. I remember the nurse taking him and offered to keep him for an extra couple of hours one night as he had been screaming since midnight ( it was 4 am) and I needed to sleep. That moment has played over in my head since. What if the lovely nurse was actually a psychopath like Lucy.

Swipe left for the next trending thread