To want a therapist with a PhD

[GalGadont]

It’s always been my understanding that you see a therapist or counsellor, not a psychiatrist or psychologist, for stuff like mild depression (rather than severe problems). However I find some counsellors, to be really frank, not that bright, and it’s not really clear to me how rigorous or thorough their training is. WIBU to want to see someone with the fullest qualifications (privately, I obviously wouldn’t expect an NHS referral)? Do people do this? How do you find someone?

Not meaning to offend anyone: I’m sure there are good counsellors, but I’ve felt like there’s something missing in my experience so far. If I’m having to pay anyway, it feels like I might as well be paying for someone with the most thorough grounding and knowledge.

Me too

I know someone that recently qualified as a counsellor. They have an unrelated degree and frankly quite a few issues themselves. They like to call people narcissistic and controlling behind their back....but really those are their traits she just lacks any self awareness.
She qualified through part time study over a couple of years. Made me realise that there are some high unsuitable people out there because although you can gave the qualification if you work for yourself there is limited supervision.

I would say though that I also had an excellent counsellor myself, so ideally go off recommendation.

I'm a counsellor and my training was rigorous. I had to have therapy myself as well as intense group work.

I keep up with CPD too.

But how would people know as all I have is a foundation degree.

https://www.avenuetherapies.com/

60 odd clinical & health psychologists here. Most working in nhs & all in private practice. All will have either CBT qualification if therapist only, or clinical or health psychologist doctoral qualification if Psychologist or/
and PhD. Some have all three.

They are excellent 👌🏼

I know exactly what you mean op. I've seen multiple people in this area and the only one who engaged on the level I needed and made a real positive difference was an actual psychiatrist. Sadly I can't afford that now that I don't have private cover and don't know what the answer is.

‘Psychologist’ is not a protected title. ‘Clinical Pyschologist’ and ‘Counselling Psychologist’ and a few more are protected titles.

Stand corrected - it is the practitioner psychologist titles that are protected so, the ones I mentioned, plus health psychologist

Counselling and psychotherapy in the UK is not regulated by law so there are no basic skills they need to have to be able to practise. The roles don't have protection of title either.

There are several registers - the largest is BACP but this is not the only one. There is an independent oversight body called the Professional Standards Authority with which the BACP and many others have accreditation.

Psychologists may be regulated by the HCPC (a statutory regulator like the GMC for doctors) but not all psychologist roles are regulated by law.

It's a minefield, very confusing for the public when trying to navigate and access safer healthcare outside the 'protection' of the NHS.

I worked with a counsellor (originally trained as a nurse) and a psychotherapist who made a world of difference to my life. I also worked with a psychiatrist who is excellent. A different psychiatrist however was absolute shite, condescending, interrupting, not at all person-centred. Am now going through my first experience with a clinical psychologist. But I’ve also met people (professionally, as I work in the field) who got into the dclinpsych who were under 30, cookie cutter stepford AP middle class white women who could afford to do a 3 month unpaid work experience here and there (prisons, crisis centres etc) to see how the less fortunate half live but who had no real life experience beyond their cushion, and who behaved towards clients as another rung on the clin psych greasy pole, not as human beings. So… it’s not just the title and the official training.

Integrative psychotherapists are by definition “integrative”, so you are correct that they have trained in more than one modality. This is not the norm though, hence why they spell it out.

As a Clinical Psychologist, I can assure you that the title ‘psychologist’ is not protected in itself. The list of applied psychologist titles you have given are the protected titles.

Put it in context - you can “technically” do a counselling course in a few weeks / months. I know people who have done this and then set up in private practice. To be an applied psychologist (with one of the protected titles!) takes years - most clinical psychologists take around 10 years to qualify when you factor in 6 years at uni and the experience they need to get onto the doctorate. Many take longer - some have PhDs before they even apply for the professional doctorate.

…no doubt someone who does not work in this field though, will be along soon to pronounce this as inaccurate! 😂

Do you mean PhD or a postgraduate qualification?

I mean a PhD!! Lots of my colleagues have double doctorates (PhD and DClinPsyc). Some have MSc, some went straight from BSc by virtue of their applied clinical / research experience prior to acceptance onto the clinical doctorate (E.g. assistant psychologist or research assistant).

It’s a definitely a long, hard slog, demanding and, at times, soul crushing path to become a clin psych (the other applied might be a bit easier to get into but just because they’re self funded!). I gave up (and went sideways) because acquiring the required experience was incompatible with having to support myself, having a child and wanting to be more than a band 6 anytime soon. Also because it was a huge gamble. I could’ve spent my 30s (as I spent my 20s spiralling and dealing with my own trauma and MH) on that path and not get in, hit 40 and have very little to show other than a great future as a CAPS or AP……………..

@Arthriticmiddlefinger Thank you so much for your informative reply. I've found this very helpful. The sarcastic replies (Perhaps written by people with a bit of a chip on their shoulders towards those with higher education, MIL is that you?) are unhelpful because I get what OP means, I've wasted a fortune on at best poor at worst dangerous therapists labelling themselves as psychotherapists.

I also want to know that the therapist I choose has the education behind them to facilitate productive and safe therapy relationship. It would also be nice if we have a similar educational level too, sorry if that offends people.

The last BACP psychotherapist I had, broke a number of rules. I was recommended her by a friend who used her too, I then saw her for a year, she broke confidentiality and spoke to each of us about each other, tried to get us to be friends with her outside the therapy, there was worse, but I can't say it here without being very outing.

I will now look for a psychologist if I need therapy again in the future, thanks.

@artimesiasfootsteps I guess the first rule she broke was to knowingly take on clients that not only knew each other but were friends.

Did you end up reporting her?

The clinical psychologist I saw (on the NHS) had a PhD, and I did find it a bit helpful that it seemed like he understood some of my problems, given that they were to do with struggling with my PhD. Is there something like that that's a motivation?

Can I just make it clear that both counselling and psychotherapy are self-regulating industries?

My ex is a counsellor and he did psychotherapy training but never passed. He also did supervision training but didn’t complete the paperwork. He offers both. Check qualifications carefully and don’t assume that all are honest. At the very least you need someone who is BACP registered and you need to verify that registration independently. In my exes case, at some point he was challenged by Advertising Standards as a result of someone (wasn’t me!) somewhere noting that although he advertised as BACP qualified this couldn’t be verified. The BACP chases this up with the advertising people. He no longer claims to be BACP qualified but still seems to be making a living.

Technically yes but you can't join any of the PSA accredited professional bodies without a minimum of 450 tutor contact hours and 100 hours of supervised practice behind you (a level 4 qualification).

I totally agree there are bad courses out there even at that level though that won't be as rigorous.

That said I wouldn't rule put someone who trained as their second career. Some of the best therapists I know did that. We don't all know at 18 this is what we want to do. I was always interested in psychology but was never much of a scientist, I was more interested in humanities and languages, not statistics. I have a Sociology Masters I did before my therapy training - one of the reasons why I'm now reluctant to spend another £10k on a psychotherapy Masters to add to my post grad diploma. I'd rather do more specific, shorter courses that help me develop my skills more than a research degree would do.

I would always pick the therapist over the degree.

Depending on your reason for therapy, you could end up having a very close bond with this person and you bond with people, not degrees.

I narrowed my choices down to 4. One had much less in qualifications than the other 3, practiced a modality that I wasn't hugely sold on and had only 6 years practical experience but I found myself drawn to him anyway.

The most experienced and qualified of them told me I couldn't afford her, one spent the getting to know you session talking about herself, then had to ask me my name as I was leaving and the last didn't phone back when I left a message.

So I went with the least qualified and he has honestly been brilliant. A few rookie mistakes early on and we were never short of conflict in the relationship but I've come a long way since I met him and he has been the driving force for change in my life.

I think sometimes you just have to go with gut instinct.

Having witnessed the worst care ever from a newly qualified NHS clinical psychologist, which resulted in life-changing negative consequences for the person involved, I'd like to see a review site along the lines of IWantGreatCare . com but covering therapists. IWantGreatCare only covers medical doctors, I believe. Then at least patients would know who to avoid.

But go with your gut, OP. Try a few people out, drop anyone straight away that has anything but a positive influence on your life - trust your feelings above all else. The luxury of choice is only offered to private patients not NHS, so take full advantage of it.

There are a few decent, caring and effective psychologists out there, these rare gems are hard to find but do exist. I hope you find what you're looking for OP.

IME the best know their worth, are £, & have waiting lists or are fully committed…especially re: kids/teens.

If they are not at least as smart as you are, it’s unlikely to be a good fit. They need to really understand your demographic too.

It’s incredibly hard to find anyone good & in my opinion & a 50 or 60 min session a week isn’t enough to begin to make progress.

IME many clever teens run rings around the average therapist & can gaslight & convince of all sorts, if so inclined.

The ones worth having are often solidly booked, like any good professional offering a service.

You are misinformed here. There are integrative counsellors who do short courses, but Integrative psychotherapists who do UKCP MSc courses train for at least 5 years, most for longer as they are required to have some experience before starting. They also have to be in therapy throughout, and are robustly qualified. The relationship is important - not every therapist will be right for every client, but how much work they have done on themselves is also significant.

You're right to mention the UKCP Psychotherapy training, which I'd researched yeras ago and forgotten (I did the Masters/BACP route). Although I see the MSc at Newman University is for three years. Maybe this isn't typical of all UKCP Accredited courses?

But there's plenty of people out there calling themselves psychotherapists after they've qualified with a Level 4 or 5 Diploma in Integrative Counselling.

I don't know that course, and I have scanned quickly, but I think the 3 years is for a psychotherapeutic counselling qualification, and longer study for psychotherapy masters. There are usually 4 taught years, plus an extra for writing dissertation, finishing placements and final exams.