Would you still find parenting hard if...

[AngryGreasedSantaCatcus]

You never did a school run, never attended a parent teacher meeting, never helped with homework or read or played with your child, never took them to the dentist, arranged birthday parties or playdates, never made them packed lunches etc. ?

Basically the parenting was the basic clean,cook(and the kid is fussy anyways so after the age of 7 mostly sorts themselves out) , laundry that anyone would have to do in a household just for 3 people instead of 2 . You're also working , but your husband does share the load.

Would you still complain how hard parenting is, that it was detrimental to your career etc. ?

YABU the basic stuff is more than enough to keep a person busy and interfere with their life.

YANBU it's all the extra stuff that actually is parenting and that makes life hard.

Tbh we are deviating from my original question. Is it still parenting and is it that hard if you don't do any of the extra stuff?

My mother didn’t do any extra stuff. We entertained ourselves! Every single day. We didn’t have pretty dresses or ten day holidays. My mum was mainly in the kitchen cooking and/or cleaning when she wasn’t working.
Your mother was probably exhausted every evening like mine.

My mum never once read to us, played with us and couldn’t help with the homework as she was dyslexic. I didn’t judge her for these things, I knew she loved me/us. I grew up understanding that her work was loving us and taking care of us, people don’t work for fun and kicks op.

Absolutely yes. Parenting is very hard in any scenario. Doubly so if you are also try it to hold down a full time job.

In my opinion it’s a strange question in itself OP but I do understand your underlying reason in asking it and can see it’s important for you to ask to try and make sense of your past.

However, I’m not sure by asking it, you’re going to get any meaningful answers from other people. It doesnt matter what other people think, as it doesnt relate to your mum’s experience and in turn yours anyway.

What is it you would really like to hear from people?

I would say yes if you were born in the 70s/80s or before.

Parents were expected to feed and clothe their children - for the child to be presentable. Discipline would be generally be smacking.

Children were expected to go outside and play or stay inside and read a book.

I'm wondering if I'm missing something really. I know other posters have tried to explain it and I was probably a bit arsey in my reply ,for which I apologise but that's because their reasons/explanations don't actually apply. And I'll be honest, it does bother me when people make up narratives just to find some kind of explanation, but that's probably a me problem.

She came home at 3:30, got changed ,sometimes did some housework, watched tv shows until 6 when we had dinner. Sometimes she cooked, but mostly was reheated stuff, which tbh was a good thing in terms of time management and waste.Then watched tv shows until bedtime. She had 4/5 on the go and fitted in other stuff around them. Weekends were the big cleaning,laundry ,ironing jobs and I can't fault her on that front. Everything was immaculate, but that's how she liked it.

She had no idea who my teachers were,who my friends were, what I did at school,what my homework was . I started a karate club after school, but forgot to do one piece of homework once(I was 8) , so I wasn't allowed to go again as I obviously couldn't manage. I was fully responsible for my homework,my timetable, equipment etc.It's things like that. Not even a second chance to try and do better or acknowledgement that it was an honest mistake, it happens.

That all sounds like pretty normal stuff and similar to my 1980’s childhood
Just because it’s normal though, doesnt mean that it was right or that it didnt effect you. You obviously needed more from your mum. More than she was able or wanted to give.

What’s making you think about this now do you think?

Depends on the person but I'd find it harder (though not necessarily better for the child). I'd like doing the fun stuff that involves interacting with the kids and find cooking and cleaning tedious.

You seem to resent your mum a bit for not interacting that much with you. It's great your dad did but some one had to do the chores as well. Maybe she would have complained less if she had less household chores to do. Or maybe she did most of the chores and so enabled your dad to have time to play with you.

also, im not sure how old you are but I grew up ijtthe 80s and 90s and I don't remember any of my friends playing much with their parents. I think we spent a lot more time entertaining ourselves. I didn't really consider my mum my playmate either but I knew she was there for me if I needed her.

Various things but the main things are:

1. Actually telling me recently how she missed out on her career progression/that job because of me and what a shame it was and what not.Massive pity party of one , when the truth is she could've, because she was there physically but not actually there.

1. Her lack of understanding that these things do need doing, they do take time and effort and that I'm not just making excuses and being lazy/useless /feckless for having the job I have (to actually be around for DD and do all these these things). Every few months it's some kind of query or hints(like "are you ever planning to use your degree"?) about me getting a bigger/better job or being busy/exhausted/stressed or that I'm being daft and OTT because I do do these things. I'm not even that great a parent tbh, more in the good enough category.

1. And that's the childish /petty bit in me, sadness and resentment that I didn't have a mum that wanted to do those things with/for me or at least attempted to. I still don't have the mum I need and I do want that. 99% of the time i just accept it as is , but that 1% catches me when I'm low and it still hurts so I wonder if maybe I'm missing something, or I'm too harsh and I want to see if others can see something I didn't/don't. Yeah , I know that's pretty pathetic.

@Flannigan it's not just playing. But any extra stuff. Like being taken to the dentist or ophthalmologist when I said I couldn't see.Or homework help. Or having a birthday party. Or being allowed a bike. Or clubs. Or any interest in my life/friends . Or making /leaving me breakfast . Or helping me why my periods where irregular and what was wrong. Or even telling me about periods. Just woke up one morning bleeding. Or anything like that.

I don't necessarily resent what happened (I'm obviously not happy, but it is what it is) but I do resent her complaining of how hard it was and how difficult raising me was. What made it so hard? Literally there was nothing of the physical or mental load related to raising a child(not just having a household) , even by the 90's standards.

My childhood was very similar to yours OP, right down to the lack of eye test until I was approx. nine. I spent summer holidays home alone from eight with my two younger siblings. I think it helped that I had them with me. I can see it would have felt very isolating if I'd been an only child. I didn't mind that my parents didn't want to play with me. I did mind that they weren't very attentive. I didn't even tell my mum when I started my period, she wouldn't have given a shit anyway. I just starting helping myself to sanitary towels in the bathroom. It made me feel unimportant to anyone but my siblings, who looked up to me.

It's not just a 90s upbringing. My friends had parents that gave them attention and didn't expect their children to be self-reliant. There's no point in holding onto the resentment now though. Just tune your DM's bullshit out and prioritise her needs in old age in-line with how you were treated.

80s/90s kid.

My mum was a shift worker (1400-2200) so we didn't see much of her, but I know she worked her arse off for us in the background. She did the morning school run (3 min drive), all the laundry and shopping, inlcuding for her elderly father. She would often prep things for our dinner like a shepherd's pie that would just need bunged in the oven by my dad. I don't remember her playing with us or reading to us much at all; she was always busy in the kitchen. She sometimes rewrites history and says that she did these things but I really don't remember. She definitely did do all the medical stuff.

My dad worked opposite shifts so was more often there for the afternoons and evenings or if he was working too, then his mum took care of us. My dad was not domestic really but he did do bath and bed etc. I also don't remember reading to him, but then I was always a good reader for my age. Maybe if teachers had said I needed help, he would have made a point of it.

I think what you describe sounds not atypical for the time.

It's not the physical stuff. It's the psychological side. The stress, the 'my best friend hates me', the 'I don't want to go to school' the 'I'm no good'. The stress of all the millions of decisions one has to make, the mistakes you make, the anger you feel, the regrets, the guilt, the feeling you are not doing a good enough job. The physical care can be done by another, like a nanny, but the difficult part remains. Sure it's easier in that you may be less tired, but you aren't a parent if you outsource the emotional side too.

I think more women back then became mothers because it was expected of them. Those women probably found it more stressful. It's really difficult to answer your question as everyone finds different things challenging. Your mum clearly found parenting hard and you feel she shouldn't. You are unlikely to both agree. For what it's worth, parents choose to have children, so if our careers stall, that is not on the child. It seems rather churlish to be complaining about it years later.

You're clearly angry with your mother. You probably have a good reason to be, but from my perspective it was both your parents who chose to raise you in such a manner.

In terms of the actual question - yes, I would find "basic parenting" tiring and hard, as those are the bits of parenting that I hate. I don't find reading or playing to be work at all, that is leisure time.

I'm sure your parents should have done more to ensure your emotional needs were met.

It sounds like a fair comment that parenting harmed her career, if she couldn't take a promotion because of lack of childcare. Whether or not you felt attended to, she was (presumably) keeping you safe. Taking a job that means she is home for 3.30 is pretty child centred.

I think you might be onto something there with the expectation thing. Something to consider, especially since I definitely wasn't what she expected/wanted in a child/girl. So being expected to have a child and then ending up with the "wrong" kind /what she perceived (and still does) a difficult one would fuck up a relationship. Definitely something to think about.

The 3:30 job was a promotion in it's own right and no more shift work. It definitely worked to her advantage , but obviously a lot more responsibility and stress, but more money,prestige ,regular hours.

I knocked myself out playing outside, cut my feet to shreds on glass running around barefoot(yes I wasn't very smart) and various other injuries. She never knew because I was used to not going to her/sorting myself out so don't know about keeping me safe. Never mind the injuries she cause physically and mentally (but I won't go into that and I don't want to make it about that).Plus the other opportunity came at 11, i was walking home alone since 5 so it wasn't like leaving me for the first time. As i said I was pretty self sufficient. Started making myself simple meals from 8 (pasta, eggs and chips,sandwiches etc) . So I don't see what difference those two weeks would've made. She did go on other courses , but they were shorter(a few days) and we managed. Maybe dad was against it(it's possible), but that wouldn't be my fault/my needs keeping her home that would've been between them as adults.

Oh, I remember when you first posted on this. You didn't like the answers then, either.

It sounds like, without a doubt, your mother found it hard. She sounds as though she was worn out (and/or profoundly unhappy to the extent that this manifested as 'worn out' behaviour - lack of engaging with you after school/work, unable to get her shit together to get your glasses sorted etc). She sounds as though she was resentful of the impact motherhood had on her career and life options, and she let it show.

You deserved more.

I feel for your mother. If she was the person posting here, back then, I'd be able to respond very compassionately. But absolutely, absolutely I agree(?) she neglected you to some degree, even taking into account that things have changed over the years.

To try to answer your question, I think parenting (as something above and beyond housework, which i mostly hate) is often fucking hard and thankless, especially when you also work. But I find it in me to do it because I am deliberately and mostly happily a parent, and it's part of the gig I freely signed up for.

She completely neglected you. Ignore posters who are siding with your mother - you could have hit a nerve there.

You've just described my childhood sort from my mum got home at 6pm and my dad did fuck all with us.

Parenting was generally based on the principle of benign neglect in those days. Expectations are very different now. I don't blame my mum for working really hard and doing all the domestic labour around a teaching career. She was (and still is) crap at anything emotional, but she shows her love with practical support.

I'm a very different mother to my child, but no doubt she'll be a different mother if she chooses to have children.

Sounds like both your mum and dad wanted to do the 'dad' role.

Nowadays, people would consider both of them shit 'mums' but ok 'dads'.

That actually made me laugh.

She was (and still is) crap at anything emotional, but she shows her love with practical support.

That I do understand, because I know people show love in different ways. But the practical part is nearly inexistent as well as she gets all flappy, finds a way in which it is my fault , finds 17 different worst case scenarios that I hadn't even considered and then makes it all about her and how worried she is. That's as an adult, and tbh I don't actually need her for much so I just hide /don't mention stuff. Sometimes I slip though.

As a child it was mostly don't get involved. Bullying? I'm not getting between children. Issues at school? Don't tell me/bother me. Depressed/self harming? Stop being stupid, go away. Not feeling well? You're making it up ,until i ended ip hospitalised. Then the whole song and dance of how hard it was for her and how I did it to myself by swimming in the sea /sleeping on the floor. Sexual assault? We don't talk about that and it was your fault in some way anyway.

It took me years to stop going to her for help /support , hoping that maybe this time is the time she sees me and does something. Fixes something for me. Supports me. Most of the times I did hide stuff /handled it myself but some things were too difficult/too much .

I definitely would've settled for practical support if the emotional side wasn't there.

You can’t change it op. It’s in the past.
get some therapy and talk it out. Make your peace, be a better parent yourself. Do this for you.