To think this guidance on the safeguarding network is awful ?

[Nurserypractitioner]

Perplexing presentation and FII :

It states in the guidance for schools to basically be suspicious of parents -specifically mothers seeking a diagnosis of ASD or ADHD and then goes on to say about parents who think their child may need an ehcp??!!

A lot of children with ASD mask at school - so if an educational setting see a different presentation that’s probably due to masking yet they are saying it’s potentially a safeguarding issue and could be indicative of FII??? AIBU to think this is dangerous advice ?

Of course some parents will seek a diagnosis, whether for financial gain, to satisfy some inner desire they hold, for attention because they themselves are unwell. I think it's good, solid advice.

I worked with a woman who rejoiced in having a tiny baby as she got some much care and attention, she wasn't adequately feeding the baby and it got removed. It happens.

Seems the only ones who would get a financial incentive then is professionals who discredit parents and accuse them of this to save money by not offering the correct support !

Well I think it's terrible it's says "seek a MH diagnosis for their child such as asd or adhd"

These are neurodivergent diagnosis's. Not MH ones.

But it's is hard when you are being ignored. I had difficulty when I knew my ds had something and it became clearer it was asd as he got older (I could have told you at 18 months!) but Joe actually has a rare neurological genetic condition.

Awareness isn't a bad thing. But I don't like the wording of yen document.

This guidance isn't about seeking support with neurodiversity or EHCPs generally. It's about noticing and acting on worrying issues facing children.

Every adult working with children had a duty to keep them safe from harm.

In this case, the issue is induced illnesses. This could cause physical or psychological harm, or even death. There is similar guidance for children who might be being sexually abused, not fed adequately, showing signs of extremism or any number of other horrific scenarios.

It would be worse if this kind of guidance didn't exist and people in a position to help didn't.

This is an issue.

How many incidences of FII are there vs incidences of professionals dismissing mothers?

I'm biased having been openly dismissed only for an objective medical test (not assessment) to confirm I was right. I was apologised to but it was frightening whilst it was resolved.

It just doesn’t sit right with me. My experience has only ever been that parents know first when something isn’t right. There have been children where initially we will be told certain things which we then don’t see in the setting - we don’t just assume it was made up and act on that ! At some point we have always then as we’ve got to know a child better started to see what the parent described to us initially

Well said.

I lost count of the number of times people mentioned me being a LP or ds an only child in conversations.

Interesting,y always when I was called over concerns of x y and z and I ask for support. Every time I agreed with them and asked how they could help it was turned back on me having too much time on my hands and noticing.

Luckily I couldn't fake the genetic test results

The problem for parents is ADHD/ASD require assessment. Therefore any bias on the assessor's part can impact.

It is easier where things are confirmed by blood test!

It’s very concerning, especially since parents often have the same conditions as their children. We can spot it because we have lived it.

What about DLA or a blue badge or other things parents can apply for?

I'm completely supportive of parents of children with SEND but I'm just playing devil's advocate. You all sound like parents who have your children's best interests at heart but please be aware not all parents are like that and try to play the system.

In all my 40+ years of teaching, half as Senco, I’ve seen a handful of cases of suspected FI. All triggered involvement with SS and improved the outcomes for the child. It’s generally pretty obvious but is always handled very very sensitively. One example is where a child was being medicated with parents blood pressure meds! Mum believed she had ADHD so thought beta blockers would calm her down.
Nowadays, parents ARE a lot more knowledgeable about different conditions and sometimes send me links to websites they’ve found on Google to prove their child is dyslexic or has ADHD or is allergic to green chalk (yes, that was a real case!).
As Senco my job is to gather evidence from experts, not guess at diagnoses.

The DLA process is hard ! It’s another set of checks too - it wouldn’t be possible to fake your way through a diagnosis then a dla claim as well plus local authorities will only give blue badges in limited circumstances for children with SEN and not physical issues which is yet another assessment.

Actually, many parents are either in denial or totally unaware that their child may have SEN.

Yes ! We’ve had a few where it’s actually been very awkward to initiate the conversation about concerns

Are there statistics for FII? It must be so rare ?

@Nurserypractitioner I completely get that but what the advice is saying is to be aware of parents who are pushing for diagnosis when there is limited evidence and to consider if it is FII.

So why do psychiatrists diagnose?

ADHD and ASD do actually come under MH

For FII, I would have had concerns about a child, done some exploring, maybe referred for assessments and it’s usually only down that road to diagnosis that FII might be suspected.

School safeguarding leads (as it's never teachers who have involvement this level, other than to pass on an observation or a disclosure) aren't doctors and won't 'diagnose' parents with issues as PP have suggested, but do tend to have experiences of noticing where 'something isn't right' with a child's family or relationships.

Sadly, where there is abuse or neglect, those trained to notice changes and signs will have seen plenty of it. Not all parents treat their children well.

I accept what you say about children masking so presenting differently in an educational setting, and don't think it ought to be a case of not believing without seeing firsthand, but the wider picture must be looked at.

If a child is, for example, withdrawn, it could be a million things, and this is one of them, however likely/unlikely, so there is provision for dealing with it and literature about it.

As I say though, this isn't aimed at parents with concerns about their children's development.

Completely agree with you here OP but some parents push and push and push when there's no concern from a schools point of view. You could argue is it abuse to even put children through assessments and observations who don't need them for the need of the parent?
I'm a teacher and sadly I've seen FII on a serious level before and it's not nice. Also, I've seen the other side; a parent who was desperately trying to support her child but we hadn't seen enough in school yet (masking etc, and we obviously can't lie about what we see). This child eventually got an EHCP as the mother applied herself and rightly so.

If I have a quid for every time a school and school staff (who are not remotely qualified to decide if a child has adhd/asd) insist my two now diagnosed kids with EHCPs were 'fine' I'd be rich.

FII is very very rare. Children with send are definitely not remotely rare.

And this also worries me as like you say teachers aren’t qualified to decide if a child has ASD or ADHD but the same advice is saying to ‘challenge the hierarchy’ within the health system ? Is that to insinuate that even if a doctor is agreeing with parents that teachers actually know better ?

Fabricated illness is extremely rare. Much more rare than schools being ill informed about SEN and gaslighting parents and the children who are ‘fine in school’ are more likely to be female

Wow! That's just appalling. Teachers are not medical professionals and have no right to be challenging them!

They also only see kids for around 6/24 hrs a day.

This is what i thought and it has worried me - parents of SEN dc will fight for the support potentially get accused of FII - ask for their consultant to confirm things and then this advice is saying what ? To also be suspicious of what a medical professional is saying as well ?!!