UK is poorer than Mississippi and not much richer than Italy or Spain or former East Germany (without London in the equation)

[rosetintedmemories2023]

Does this shock you?

A welfare state and free healthcare is generally the preserve of rich countries. It makes sense why the NHS pay is no longer competitive (whether inside or outside London) as the country can only pay proportionately to its wealth (even if you make a policy decision to try to pay essential workers well, there is only so much you can do without overstretching)..

I’m not at all surprised. We’re so busy calling ourselves a wealthy country that we’ve actually forgotten to be one.

Lots of apathy though & you generally see comments of "yes we are more unequal but at least we aren't in the middle east" or "restaurants are packed near me". I don't really understand the lack of caring, is it because they are unaffected? or is it head in the sand?

Is it because their observations don't look like a shoeless, shirtless wasteland of talentless meth heads?

I don't see why this is a surprise and also it's not a a particularly helpful metric.

The real issue is that so much of the money being generated anywhere in the uk but most obviously in London is going to private (non uk owned) companies and investors and not being reinvested back anywhere in the uk.

Education is the key to social mobility and successful economies. Until money is made available for this the inequalities will sustain.

It's ridiculous really. There are so many interesting conversations to be had about productivity, equality, education and healthcare but it cannot be had with such a heavy serving of doomongering. Entertaining as it is.

But there also needs to be decent jobs in the areas where education needs to be improved. Not everyone can relocate to London for work. We need to start taking jobs to the people out in the regions. You need both, i.e. education AND work opportunities, to get more economic activity out in the poorer regions.

rosetintedmemories2023
That was the point of the article. With the UK it makes a huge difference. It makes a difference with other countries but not as large!

The difference looks larger when you take Paris out of France!

Perhaps you could confirm - as I pointed out earlier your graphic is blurry for me.

Your link is paywalled and the images are fuzzy. Was it counting Milan as city or province ?

London is comparable to Lombardia. Lombardia seems much bigger than London on a map, but 40% odd is mountains. And there are massive lakes taking up space. Population of the region is around 10 million ish IIRC. It generates about a fifth of the GPD. London has a smaller population, but it’s likely quite a bit younger than Lombardia’s.

If you can get behind the paywall see if you can generate a more “like for like” Deducting the Big Beast comparison.

It’ll drop our figures in a way that gives you a better comparison to judge from.

But we still live better. Culture makes the difference. And while we’re bemoaning the potential to become Albania, if Italy ever goes tits up, Albania is exactly where I’m heading. Like I said, quality of life is more about the cultural mindset you immerse yourself in, not what you’ve got and where you sit in a spreadsheet.

If you want to sort your NHS out perhaps look at examples other than U.K. v USA as though they were the only models on the planet available.

You’re being softened up for model change anyway. Might as well get ahead of the curve and pick for yourselves rather than find yourselves eased into one of models you find less attractive.

@Kazzyhoward I think the education comes first. Entrepreneurs and business owners whose aspirations were raised by their educational experience will seek to create opportunities in their home towns if they have access to a pool of well educated employees. Of course the government needs to support this activity but ultimately plonking an office in a low employment area doesn't automatically mean that the educated workforce needed will be available unless they are made so.

This - I work in Germany a lot and talk to young graduates and apprentices. They have Frankfurt (finance), Munich (tech), Stuttgart (engineering) and Berlin (the arts) of course, but thriving middle-tier cities too, with opportunities for both graduates and school leavers. Go and spend a working week in Dusseldorf, and then a week in an equivalent-sized UK city, say Sheffield, and the difference could not be more stark. One thing that doesn't get talked about is how the absolutely crap public transport systems in the UK massively hinder mobility of early-career workers.

But there'll be lots of "educated" people from even the most deprived areas of the UK, but they'll mostly have never returned home from Uni and got employment in one of a handful of big cities (unless they're, say, teachers or NHS workers). Even the worst inner city comps will produce some high calibre students. It's chicken and egg really. Unless there are decent employment opportunities, the few who do get a good education won't stay in/return to their home town. That's why I said we need both, preferably in tandem, so that the few high calibre students/graduates find decent jobs in their home towns, and younger pupils start to see decent employment opportunities and start to realise that working hard at school can actually improve their lot, rather than the hopelessness we so often see.

I’ve not looked at it so fully expect to be flamed, it’s a genuine question, but who funds Uni education and prescriptions outside England but within the UK?

I have a FT subscription but it only allows me to share the link to friends and not in the public sphere. I think it compares milan to italy as a city (as London is a city).

This is just raw numbers, it doesn't look at quality of life or happiness index or any of that. Those are important but at the same time, the UK is accustomed to certain things due to its first world rich status. If we are to transition out of that, then it requires a mindset shift like you say, or a fundamental shift (if we refuse to accept it).

Honestly love comparing London to Milan (city) is like comparing an orange to a pip. Our geography is so very different from yours. Lombardia is your best bet for a more genuine and informative comparison. It contains a lot of white zone (not earthquaky). Even you deduct the large parts that are too wet, too boggy for building tall buildings on, too pointy, too historically important to allow development etc it’s still blessed compared to many other parts of the country.

About 10 million souls (albeit likely with an older average age than London due to all the isolated villages and hamlets), generating about a fifth of the GPD. Just spread out more than London cos of geographical and cultural restraints.

That person is in Texas, instant eye roll. My brother lives in Austin, Texas (weather reasons) and he comes back here (northern Ireland) for healthcare as the cost for even minor treatment there costs a small fortune. When she visited here his mother in law got the cold and subsequently developed a cough (typical) and needed medical treatment, and couldn't believe the fact she didn't have to fork out for it. The concept of access to healthcare not being dependent on how much money you have in your pocket has no place in a "me me me" society

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Brock_(philanthropist)

"Stan Brock was a British philantropist who founded the charity Remote Area Medical in 1985. It was originally conceived to treat people in the developing world, but turned its attention to those in need of health care in the United States".

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/stan-brock-the-british-cowboy-turned-movie-star-who-rescue

The inequality there exceeds anywhere else on the planet. Look under the bonnet there and you see poverty, homelessness, and of course crime aplenty, with schools having active shooter drills for kids. Even San Francisco is a dump.

Is it because their observations don't look like a shoeless, shirtless wasteland of talentless meth heads?

come again @FourTeaFallOut?

Britain is going dowwwn. Buckle up, stop the blame game, pull yourselves up by the bootstraps and get on with it!

🇬🇧 Keep Calm and Carry On 🇬🇧🇬

As far as mindset… I don’t know if that is a genie you can put back in the bottle.

On an individual level, yes, you can.

But on a population level ? I think it would take at least as long to rebuild it as it took to erode it. If not longer.

A relative recently sent me this.

Possibly centuries long.
“Blessed is he who plants trees under whose shade he will never sit.”

Meant to @AlienatedChildGrown

Potentially, yes.

Blessed indeed.

16% of England's population live in London.
So exclude a large chunk of the population to get statistics that support your argument.
Nice one OP.

Geographical mobility of labour in the UK is exceptionally poor.

This is due to:

High housing costs
High transport costs

So what happens is only the truly smart people leave the poorer areas (usually for graduate jobs that can help them move witj advances) with the rest expecting the jobs to come to them.

Thats the key failing of the UK native population.

The completely unproductive apathy.

They truly expect the jobs to come to them and not the other way around. Thats why the north remains poor.

Zero initiative.

I cut my teeth working in the US (NYC and DC) and the attitude of Americans is practically in another dimension.

They will move across the country for a job that gives them better earning potential.

I see none of that in the UK. Just apathy.

Nobody owes you a living. Nobody. You have to put in the effort to earn more.

Until that changes only London & South areas will keep growing because they have a bit of the American drive for work.

@thethinkingoblong I moved to London for work. Four years later I moved out as it is a shit place to live. Where I now live was recently listed as one of top ten places to live.