UK is poorer than Mississippi and not much richer than Italy or Spain or former East Germany (without London in the equation)

[rosetintedmemories2023]

Does this shock you?

A welfare state and free healthcare is generally the preserve of rich countries. It makes sense why the NHS pay is no longer competitive (whether inside or outside London) as the country can only pay proportionately to its wealth (even if you make a policy decision to try to pay essential workers well, there is only so much you can do without overstretching)..

Are there numbers for GDP per head?

they are for gdp per capita.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/regionaleconomicactivitybygrossdomesticproductuk/1998to2021

Still more spread out than you would think, although aligned to main cities and also to University towns, which isn't surprising either.

If you’re going to deduct London from your figures, then maybe deduct Milan from ours.

If you want to really see something shocking, deduct Lombardia from Italy’s figures and see how they plunge.

I’d still rather be here than back there. Life is what you make it into, not how much you’ve got. Which IME Italians know to a degree that makes life more liveable, despite our rather “interesting” economy.

Exactly, and Londoners get a disproportionate share of public spending per head, presumably to compensate them for the overcrowding and poor air quality.

If they take Catalonia out of Spain, it's even worse, that's why the Spanish government was so worried about Scottish independence!

1. Removing London from the equation makes the equation meaningless

2. All of my life (child and adult, Ireland and England) I have been confidently assured that we are all on the brink of ruin. We are all still here, and the problems we have are increasingly those of affluence.

Exactly, and Londoners get a disproportionate share of public spending per head

Yes, they do, and spare a thought for us poor buggers in the South East, who work in London, and get none of the benefits!

@RunAwayTurnAwayRunAwayTurnAway

Manufacturing in the east mids in the past, now there's lots of london bound commuters. The trains are packed.

@CalistoNoSolo

We can't get 4g in half of my town yet the are rolling out 5g to others. Surely they should prioritise those without 4g first - we aren't that small, 27,000 and it's pretty affluent

I don't think Britons want to be poor. Relying on London would not work in the long term.

It would mean having to live with their parents until age 35 as is common in Italy. It would mean not being able to LTB easily as Mumsnet often advises because there would be no benefits for single parents or subsidized childcare. It would mean not being able to go NC with abusive or horrible parents because they own the roof over your head (and private rent is too expensive or you rely on them to fund your deposit). It would mean no NHS (it may exist on paper but not in actual fact). It would mean bad state education.

A lot of these problems already exist but to a much smaller degree. We have been able to paper over the cracks (though the poor are genuinely suffering).

Basically our society as we have it today- individualistic, nuclear families, yearly vacations to Spain or Turkey on a modest family vacation, home ownership for the masses (even achievable when renting in your 20s for some people in certain areas) - is because we had such amazing growth from 1950s to 1970s and then from 1997 to 2010- which made the average Briton much richer, funded a welfare state that helped Britons have security even with modest incomes . If you have a poorer country, you can't afford to be individualistic and you can't afford quality public services or to afford a welfare state.

10 million on nhs waiting list is a problem of affluence?

Because basically since the Thatcher revolution in the 80s (when we finally gave up on old industry) we've basically built our entire economy around London.

Wouldn't some of the shock be to do with stereotypes about Mississippi? Shoeless, shirtless, uneducated meth addicts? If we are in par with one another then it almost makes you wonder whether perhaps Mississippi is more than this.

Like I said, just as you deducted London from your figures, deduct Milan from our futures if you want figures that come closer to comparing like with like.

It might come as a massive surprise ..but in many countries one city, province or region contributes disproportionately to the nations overall figures. It’s not always where the capital city is.

not one bit, however compare other countrie after removing their capital cities from the equasion and see how the figures change.
Its a loaded game

Grew up in the NW and live in Texas. It sadly doesn’t shock me.

The Uk has fallen apart because of apathy. Education is a joke because of massive underfunding and rather than replicate what private schools achieve through small class sizes and engaged students, there is an agenda to destroy these schools that educate children.

The grammar school system could work if primary schools were funded properly enabling small class sizes. I do believe the vast majority of parents are engaged but the tax system is broken.

Talking of taxes, why does the UK have a system where everyone pays the same tax based on income and you get a refund through welfare? It’s inequitable. Childcare should be fully deducted from earned income and there should be an allowance for children equal to the allowance for adults.

There is no incentive to work beyond 3 days a week because the tax structure hasn’t moved on to reflect the modern day world of both men and women working. When I think of the GP shortage I consider all of the doctors working part time because they can’t afford to buy in the help needed. The rational action is to work part time. It’s bonkers the Uk has invested so heavily to educate people but then doesn’t support them working.

As for the recycling rules….it’s how I know everyone has lost their ability to critically evaluate. I’ve never seen such huge amounts of plastic. In the 80s much more was recycled without the fanfare and overall consumption was less so waste in general was lower than today.

The gdp per capita actually only goes down 10k when you deduct Milan from Italy. It's not a huge difference. It's shown in the graphic.

That was the point of the article. With the UK it makes a huge difference. It makes a difference with other countries but not as large!

Isn't second world communist/Eastern bloc. Outdated term.

Londoners and people in the South East pay more income tax than other regions and pre COVID were the only regions with a fiscal surplus. If you pay more into the system per capita is it really disproportionate if you get more out of it per capita? This is especially a pertinent question if even with the higher level of expenditure per capita the surplus your region generates is used to subsidise other regions who are running pretty terrifying deficits.

Personally I'm pretty sick of the popular narrative in this country that wealth and success must be penalised. It just becomes a race to the bottom where people are so busy moaning about how unfair everything is that they don't even try to emulate and build upon the success of others. Innovation and entrepreneurship is in the gutter and there is a complete lack of focus on how to achieve economic growth that would benefit everyone.

You do like top level stats don't you OP?

NHS waiting lists are high because of COVID, they are high because of population growth, they are high because of increased longevity, they are high because we haven't kept up with funding those in terms of manpower nor resource. It doesn't reflect though that there are more staff than ever, and we are treating more people than ever, and with more complex and expensive issues than ever. It's not just a simple number.

The chatter of take x out of y is meaningless. The UK has majorly fallen behind and is no longer competitive.

The talent has left the country because it’s impossible to afford a dual income family. The system has completely broken down with horrific housing and lack of mobility socially, economically and literal.

This is just negative hype tbh

Housing has fucked up the economy.

Salaries are crap with many eg teachers & doctors going backwards.