European parents/children

[geoger]

posting here for traffic…..
On holiday in Greece. Lots of Greek/Italian/Scandinavian families at the beach. I’ve noticed that the majority of parents I’ve seen are a bit ‘hands-off’ eg: very small children (2-4yo) left on the sand or to wander into the sea on their own, kids left unsupervised in the sea whilst the parents chill on the sunbeds etc. The parents seem so much more relaxed than I ever was when my dc were little. I also noticed that the children are very confident and mature. I speak Greek and Italian so I understand what they are saying to each other - the convos seem very ‘adult’ and their vocabulary is excellent for their age.
It’s all come to my attention today because a little Italian boy aged about 5 was deliberately splashing me, bumping into me in the sea and making jokes with me - he then wanted to play catch in the water with me. DH thought this hilarious and the more he laughed the more of my attention the little boy wanted. I could never imagine my own dc doing that to a stranger at that age.
Obvs I am only talking about a tiny group of people on a tiny resort on a tiny greek island so it may not apply to all European families but I was wondering if others had noticed this?

I have noticed the same - currently on holiday too. Spain. But we are probably meeting nice kids. The hotel we are in is 4star and has lots of nationalities. No horrible drunk ~hogs~ Brits and presumably not their continental equivalent.
The Spanish parents definitely leave their kids unattended more around the pool. Also they are less uptight than Brits and don’t have much of a concept of personal space, queues or the over-politeness of Brits.

Yes I agree , we are in Germany near koningsee at a local pool. Although the chap that to let his son who had cut his back and was bleeding continue to use the pool was slightly more hands off than I would have liked.

the lifeguards are also more hands off. No incessant whistles in fact I’m intrigued as to what you’d need to do to get one.

Generally children are with adults more and less child centred activities. So I guess they get adult vocabulary earlier. Ie Ds we take swimming, but otherwise he just comes with us wherever ( no choice really). Term time Ds has kindergarten, where independence is encouraged.

I live in Switzerland (in the centre of the biggest city Zurich not a cute village).

It is normal for 6 year old children to walk to school alone.

Educators advise against driving your children to school.

So it’s not just me who has seen this. Yes, I think the words hands-off are more apt. I didn’t let my dc leave my sight when they were little and we were super vigilant at the beach. I don’t consider myself a helicopter parent or overly protective but I def feel like one now

I noticed this somewhat in Corfu last month. Example one - small beach, I was in the water and two small boys perhaps 4 and 7 entered, put their own mask and snorkel on competently and swam around in the shallows. Little one had arm bands. Mum was watching from the beach.

example 2: at complex pool kids similar age as above left in the pool while dad snoozed/read by the side. We were much more active playing and swimming/jumping in with them. To me it was normal for us to be in the water with them especially as one of ours can’t swim well.

worh the beach I wondered if it was because the Corfu water was so warm and safe. We live on the Scottish coast and the waves are big with strong tides and drag. No way would I let mine swim in the sea in Scotland with me just on the beach. So I applied the same rule to Corfu!

Spanish kids spend 3 months in the pool every summer, every day, so I find they're a lot more confident in the water, whereas British kids will do half an hour a week at most and take a lot longer to build up their confidence.

Tbh I don’t think it’s because the water is warm and shallow. We took a trip to a beach with big waves and got deep quickly and witnessed the same thing. And like you said kids putting on arm bands, goggles and even sun cream with no help

Us Brits are neurotic parents compared to a lot of Europe - every summer you have threads on here from posters who've just returned from holiday in Spain/Italy and are horrified that they saw toddlers sleeping in buggies in restaurants at 10pm. We are also much more reserved and uptight about personal space/privacy. None of this really encourages high levels of confidence at an early age. Oh and we are starking mad about potential pedophiles do an advanced search on threads about mothers feeling 'violated' that another woman approached to coo over her baby. I was in a park recently and a young girl (who was Eastern European) started talking to me, asking why I was there etc. I actually looked over at her parents (who weren't interested) before responding to her, then my dd18 accosted me for talking to "a strange child", as she just did a child protection course in work.

I was saying this on a thread about other cultures and child-rearing recently — a lot of middle-class British parents are far more anxious about parenting than their equivalents in other European countries. In terms of safety but also in terms of getting it ‘right’. (Not from the UK, but had my son there and brought him up there till the age of eight.)

Agreed!

I think you are on to something. I’m a scandi parent who has also lived in the UK, France, Belgium with kids and the UK parents have always stood out to me as the most scared ones. Scared of kidnappers, of kids drowning, choking, falling etc. It is much more relaxed in the other countries I have lived in and the kids have developed independence and are much better at navigating the world at a much younger age. Health and safety is huge in the UK.

I’m not horrified or disturbed by this behaviour. I actually think it’s quite liberating and wish my kids had these kinds of freedoms when they were little as I think it would have given them more resilience and confidence early on. But, obvs living in London i didn’t feel comfortable allowing them these kinds of freedoms eg walking to school age 7

I also just remembered that in the late 80s when we went on holiday (Spain or Greece) it wasn't unusual for waiters to lift a child who was fussy/moaning and walk around with them whilst their parents ate. Don't know if that's still a thing, but that would be seen as very off in UK nowadays.

Not recycle your ice cream wrapper correctly I imagine 😀

I also recall spending 5 weeks every summer as child with family etc and leaving the house at 8am and not coming back until very late - nobody even batted an eyelid or even asked where we’d been

My DC are now 18 and 14 but we spend a lot of time in Spain and it wasn’t unusual for one or both of them to be lifted out of a high chair or push chair and taken to be shown off to the rest of the staff by a waitress - especially very blonde DD

@feralunderclass - still normal. Ds was taken a few nights ago at local restaurant to go and see the farm animals with owner. ( was a local farmhouse casual restaurant). There’s was about 4 children under 5 following the lady around with chickens and picking chamomile flowers for her soap at 8.30pm.
They were all vaguely in our view still but pottering around.

But yes, usually, warmer summers in countries mean they spend a lot more time by water. So righty or wrongly children are probably more confident and parents more lax as it’s a daily thing. Not just for your 1-2 week holiday.

There seems to be a higher tolerance for children and the elderly seem to love small kids! We've just come back from the canaries and the touching of kids from older people was a shock! Just small things like hair scruffles and arms on shoulders but it was seemingly normal for them.

I also felt less judged for daring to even have children out in actual public with actual other humans - which was lovely!

In Spain, Italy and Greece the expectation is for all adult women to look after children (whether you have your own or not). It’s quite normal for parents to tell kids to find a lady to take care of them (or play with them, or take them to the loo) while they relax. I personally don’t like this.

Just read some of the threads on here, Mothers treating their 18 year old adults like 4 year olds. only the other day a mum had to use this forum to decide if it was ok to let her 12 year old go to the cinema alone. British women agonise over ever little decision to do with their children, European Mother are far more relaxed and realise that a child is not a glass bauble that they should centre their lives around.

Currently at a boutique hotel in Italy- mix of mainly French, Italian, British and Dutch families and couples.
All the kids are staying up late, no difference at all in any of the behaviour or parents, kids etc- other than the British ones are sometimes wearing a rash vest!

Not necessarilly it's exactly the same as here in the Uk.some swim a lot some don't
Eg My Spanish Daughter in law can't swim and didn't have lessons as a child. My GC (age between 4 and 8) are all confident swimmers and the eldest swims 4 times a week.

I'm European, but live (and parent) in the UK.

I think one of the biggest differences I've noticed is that British parents tend to segregate child activities/time slots (and even menus) from adults' equivalents.

In the mainland, children tend to spend more time around family, eat adult food in restaurants, attend dinner parties/concerts etc.

It's also perfectly normal (and mostly welcome by the parents) for neighbours or strangers to tell a child off if they're doing something anti-social and/or dangerous.

Just thinking about this a bit more! Is it because on holiday you're seeing the 'Europeans' relaxed and away from their more hectic normal lives. DS is at a school in London with lots of kids with parents from mainland Europe. They don't seem to parent much differently to be honest. Can be harsher when it comes to academics but DS's Italian and French friends don't seem to have more or less freedom than him although do tend to spend the summer holidays with extended family in their home countries.